What should we do? A move or improve.

[BasilPersil]

DH and I feel totally stuck. We've got a 3 (2 big doubles and a smaller single, but not a box) bed terrace on a street and location we really love (London). We've got 2 pre-teens and it's starting to feel cramped- 1 very small bathroom, no home office space. DC2's room is not massive, they're a bit cramped. Garden is smallish but not miniscule. Our mortgage is almost paid off and we bought wisely and have a load of equity. I'm mid 40s, DH mid 50s. I'm the higher earner by some margin. We've got an offer on our house. The street is great, quiet, friendly, near the station on a good line. Easy for teens to get around, less than 20 mins to central.

It's not an easy house to extend because of the roof construction, but a small outrigger loft conversion could be done, which would give us a small double and a shower room, so we'd have a spare/office. It might be possible to do a full mansard but would need planning, which no one on the street has ever tried, and we could do the side return. 150k would get either the full mansard (2 beds and a shower) OR smaller loft and if not a full side return some sort of kitchen works.

Or- we could move. But we can't find a bloody house. Everything is basically our house with a small loft conversion on top, so not worth it for stamp duty of £45k or out of our price range- we could get the mortgage but because of DH age we're wary about a massive one as it relies on me heavily. DC1 has an ehcp so we need to stay close to their school (and ideally in the same borough although that's not essential, we're on the border of 3 boroughs) and DC2 has moved primary school a couple of times, is in year 4, and we don't want to move them again until secondary (they will go to the same secondary).

We've offered on 2, one a great size but in less than ideal location and overpriced (it's still on the market while houses in better nick reduce around it) and one which we really liked but went for over asking price and it had some shortcomings for us so didn't want to go to that amount. DH very adamant about not moving to the suburbs.

So our options are:

1. Forget moving, plough 150k remortgage or so into reno and be happy here. This would take us to the ceiling price for the street. House still not perfect but we keep location and save stamp duty.

1. Light touch reno- loft and shower, redecorate - say 60k- think about moving again when DC2 is at secondary and we can flex on area more. We'd have to move to a much cheaper area at this juncture I think.

1. Suck up a big mortgage and rely on downsizing later. DH might be quite old by then. Will limit disposable income. We're public sector but feel reasonably comfortable at the moment. We're not fancy but a couple of cheaper holidays a year are no problem.

Because we're in London, and because of the SEN, we're expecting young adults at home (forever!?). The house also needs a bit of attention with decor and maintenance so we need to go one way or the other. Also we're quite shit with builders, historically.

What should we do? Argh.

Would the 1 bedroom and shower room in the attic not suit you all? Parents in the attic with ensuite and both children with their own rooms and shared bathroom? If you took out the 150k mortgage to do the full renovation would that give you much more space that you could live their forever? Location you have found is perfect i would either do the 60k loft room or 150k renovation depending on what it is I need more.

If you like the location, stay. Do the attic and have a master suite for you and DH there, turn 3rd bedroom into home office. Kids share small bathroom on their floor.

Kids will be teens soon. They spend a lot of time out with their friends and don't care about the garden etc. They just want their own room, to be close to school/friends and good transport links. I am in similar situation and didn't move and don't regret it. A step up in london is ridiculous money for very little benefit.

Definitely stay and do the renovation, bear in mind any quote you get can easily increase substantially once the works commence though! But honestly for the stress of moving, losing your great location and paying stamp duty it’s a no brainer, you should stay.

We have been having a similar dilemma, we are going to spend about £60k on our house and stay put. We just can’t afford to move to anything we would really want.

Do 3. Get an interest only mortgage and downsize once the kids are older to pay the balance off. I don't know why more people don't do this, it makes sense because no one actually needs a massive house for ever, just for about 10-15 years when the kids are teens/ young adults. If they end up moving home for a long period when they are adults then you can charge them rent and put it towards the mortgage

Light touch renovation. The location is important to you and you can't find what you want.

TBH I dont understand why a 3-bed is insufficient for a family of four especially if bedroom 3 is a single rather than a box room. Just been on another thread where this is discussed. Growing up, this is exactly what our family had (and I had the smaller room) and we never felt short-changed.

I realise that working from home has changed space needs. And a second bathroom is helpful. The loft conversion will give you those.

Is a garden office an option too?

I’d go for 2. Option 1 leaves you a bit vulnerable, as does option 3. The stamp duty is daylight robbery. (I know it’s needed etc.)

My gut reaction is stay where you are and extend. You love the street. location and house. You can’t find what you want. If you move, it’s so unsettling and you might get awful neighbours.

In life you never know what’s around the corner. You may want to move sometime in the future for various reasons, who knows. Just get on with your life.

My family is similar to yours with the SEN and good location and imperfect house but my kids are now older teens.

We stayed and did some building work and I'm so glad we did.

The teens can get around easily on public transport, are still close to their school and are gradually gaining independence.

We had a garden room built a few years ago which is a brilliant multifunctional space (home office, workout space, teen hangout space). Is there space for this in your garden?

I'm definitely with your DH on not moving to the suburbs.

I would definitely get the loft done now in your position and think about future renovations down the line. We did find ours quite stressful with all the ASD in the house but it was absolutely worth it to keep the location.

Good luck!

To me your 'issue' is lack of office space and only one bathroom. Is a garden office an option and then whatever the smallest modification you can make to get a small shower/toilet in.

It just sounds like a normal family hime otherwise.

Stay put!

I'd stay.

In terms of what you spend, before embarking on a lift conversion I'd look at every space in your house and how it is being used to see if there are any other tweaks that might make a difference to how you live.

We are also a terrace. We turned a cupboard on the landing into a small w/c. It wasn't expensive as the pipes ran up and under the floor outside anyway (because we have concrete floors downstairs). It's not perfect but as our main (tiny) bathroom is downstairs it is fine for middle of night/if someone is using it. Small change, massive impact.

When redoing the kitchen I couldn't make it work with a tumble dryer so put it in shed. It's handy when bringing in washing that hasn't quite dried.

Can you fit a wardrobe for the small room into the hallway? Or take a bit from the other bedroom? So it is accessed from one room but effectively in the other? The kids rooms in our house have cupboards staggered like this (original) and it's a clever use of space. They aren't overly deep but hold loads.

You may still decide on loft extension as well, it's just worth really looking at what you already have to maximise it while you are doing work.

Edited to add is there an alcove you can add a small desk? I have a fairly narrow one and fitted a pull out for the keyboard. It isn't too intrusive while not in use. Like you I have pre teens so when I'm working, they are at school and it doesn't matter if I fill more of the space. I prefer being in the main part of the house to shut away in a tiny space.

Our back room houses a hidden washing machine so sometimes it's utility space. There's a small sofa and TV so sometimes it's living and my desk so it's office. But it's not all these things at the same time so it's fine.

This nails it. ^

How are you shit with builders ?

Can you put a small garden pod in to use as an office?
I’d do the loft conversion and stay living somewhere you like. Pay off the mortgage and enjoy life with your teens.

Oooh that's quite unanimous.

We just seem to be quite bad at managing trades, although have learned a lot with other things we've done. Might be bad luck or just not our forte.

We do have a sort of garden office already that was put in about 25 years ago by previous owners but the power doesn't work and it's in use as a regular shed so yes replacing that is an option (we have so many bikes though...).

Obviously 3 bedrooms is enough for the number of kids we have but it's the WFH in combo issue really, at least one of us always has laptops etc spread around, if kids are home too they then can't be in the same room due to calls/noise so prevents them hanging out downstairs. Our garden is smallish but that's not a total deal breaker for us. I do hate the tiny bathroom and no airing cupboard but an architect or similar might be able to suggest something interesting.

I think you're all right, the next step up in London is just mad isn't it. It needs to be significant sq ft increase to make a difference.

If you're going up have to chuck away £45k on stamp duty anyway if you move, £60k on an extension doesn't sound like a lot in comparison!

Have you tried talking to an architect? They can work absolute magic with space in my opinion!

https://find-an-architect.architecture.com/

I think our worry about architects is they'll come up with something brilliant but totally out of budget. But people must use them all the time!

It doesn't cost to get a quote.

My aunt had her extension designed by a local architect. She spoke to a few to find one she wanted to work with, and she was upfront about her budget.

The end result is absolutely stunning!

We’ve done both a loft conversion and a downstairs extension- both great, but the loft conversion made the bigger difference I think, as the house worked for two growing DC and the third single bed could be an office. Having an en-suite in the loft is great.

Option 2. Don't go into debt more than you absolutely have to (ever) and option 2 gives you the most flexibility. As someone said, for growing kids, garden becomes less important.

Are you sure the loft will be £60k? We are SW London and did ours in 2022 and it was £85k. Obviously that was covid prices, but with cost of living, maybe things havent changed that much? Do the figures still work if you are looking at £80-90k? Just something to consider.

Ooh! Love it or list it -get Phil and Kirsty in!
I'd stay put and extend

I'm going to say the opposite. If your children aren't yet at secondary this is the perfect time to move to the suburbs. Secondaries will probably be better there too. If as you say you envisage home working and a older child at home as an adult go for more space now. The longer you leave it the more difficult it is to uproot them and you will kick yourself fir not being brave now. You can always downsize later back to a smaller more central house but you can't get their childhood back. Their possessions will grow your house still won't be quite right even with renovations especially as loft conversions are in London about 100k minimum now with vat and the decorating etc

Anyway there are suburbs and there are "suburbs".

I don't know a single person who moved out to a larger CHEAPER or same price house, whether further out in London or to suburbs, who regretted it.

Whereas the people who stayed have another problem too - their adult children can't afford to live in same area nor do they fit in the house as twenty somethings

I would disagree about secondaries probably being better in the suburbs. Totally depends on the area. In my part of London (zone 3/4) there are many outstanding secondaries whereas the nearest suburban ones have a mixture of reputations.

Re their childhoods, moving further out with preteens to me seems the less appealing option. My teens, all with varying SEN, have really benefited from living more centrally, it has really enabled them to gain independence and pursue a variety of interests and activities.