Vendor not budging on house price

[BananaMoon4]

Hello Mumsnetters,
We have sold our house and about to exchange. We found a property that we like, that ticks almost all of the boxes, but is located on a very busy and fast moving road. The house has been on the market for 6 months, having also been on the market last year for 6 months. Last year, they had 'a buyer' that offered their asking price, but ultimately this buyer did not proceed as apparently there was an issue with their mortgage. So essentially, they had no buyer!
There are 3 other houses on this road, all priced 100k less, who have also been on the market for 6 months plus. The reason we want the house over the others is because it has a bigger garden and a separate annex for my mum.

We offered 8% below asking on this house and it was rejected, with the owners citing 'we got the asking price for it last year' (which has made me mad as they clearly didn't get the asking price from a proceedable buyer or it would have been sold!)

As soon as we find something we are ready to exchange on our house. Our AIP and solicitor is ready to go. The vendor has said they will accept 2% off their asking price (for reference, the house is just under 1m)

I am getting super frustrated as we have accepted a 5% below offer on our own house due to the market being a buyers market at the moment.

I suppose I am just looking for some advice, for someone not emotionally connected to this, on how we should proceed. My thoughts were to place a 5% below offer and walk away if they don't budge. The reason being the house is overpriced (but suits our needs) and is on a road that we will likely struggle to sell again in the future as it's so busy (but it's going to be our forever home to raise our family, so I'm not too bothered about that)

I also want to feel like I have got a good deal (who doesn't?!)

Should we just keep looking?

I have a sticky vendor on a BTL I’d love to get, they had it on for £475 dropped to £450 but now won’t budge, but it wasn’t worth £475.. they dropped the price within 3 months of going on the market.

Ive put in £415, £425,£435 and now have to walk away, as the margins done stack beyond that.

This is a limited company purchase mortgage ready etc, so I'm not convinced its a buyers market quiet yet.. if you can rent and hold out next year will be interesting, especially at the levels above £850k.

is so bloody frustrating!

What i would also say is we live in an area with an older demo...vendors were mostly retired before 60, most had 2nd homes (or more) and weee looking to "cash out" on their London home.

We bought coming up 6 yrs ago.
When we bought we viewed aggressively and saw everything on the market pretty much.

A lot of the vendors were IMO delusional...
Lots were 100/200k over price and vendors would not budge.
Over the next 2-3 years almost all the delusional houses did sell at close to asking.

We saw one in 2019 at £1.35m that even the EA said she'd be very lucky to get £900k for. It was on the market for FIVE years... she just sold at 1.3m
lord knows who was willing to pay that but anyway....

You just need one buyer and if you dont need to move for schools / jobs etc you can just wait it out.

If its perfect for you and its a long term bet id go for it.
Otherwise negotiate on the others on the street

It sounds like you want this house as it ticks your boxes. Therefore it’s worth paying the asking price (or close to it) surely, if you can afford it? If you can’t afford it, you look elsewhere because the owner clearly has a figure in mind they’re not prepared to go under. They don’t have to budge an inch in price if they don’t want to, so no point getting frustrated. If you do opt to go into rented accommodation while you look for somewhere else, you could be renting a long time and waste a lot money that could have gone towards buying this house. Don’t loose it through stubbornness - they don’t owe you anything, so you either meet their price or jog on.

I am bit biased about this as my mothers neighbour is one of those that get a valuation and decide that that is the only price. Last time it went on her 2 bed bungalow was on for more than what the 3 bed bungalow across the road went for but she still wouldnt budge! She doesnt need an upward move as apparently she will be moving into a flat in her daughters house.

How do I know? She tells me and my mother every single time we see her. Every. Single. Fucking. Time. 😅 she is also a massive PITA and my mother cant wait to see the back of her!

If they are willing to take 2% less can you counter with 3% less? And add any other conditions that would make it more palatable to you eg exchange within 8 weeks and a set settlement date?

The extra 1% might make you feel like you have had a win and hopefully as its so small they will agree.

I also think the reason for the price difference sounds fair.

We saw one in 2019 at £1.35m that even the EA said she'd be very lucky to get £900k for. It was on the market for FIVE years*... she just sold at 1.3m
lord knows who was willing to pay that but anyway....*

Yeah but after 5 years of increasing house prices it probably IS worth that now. But silly people like her will just see that they got "what its worth" rather than seeing that actually it was just inflation rather than her being right all along. I bet if you tried to explain that 1.3 mil isnt worth as much as it was 5 years ago she wouldnt get it at all!

That's a totally different situation to the current one though.
The delusional sellers in 2019 were lucky because the market rose v rapidly from mid 2020-22/23 depending on the area. They simply benefited from the fact that the market rose to meet their high asking prices. Now, we have a falling market, likely to fall more, maybe considerably more so today's delusional sellers are far less likely to make sales at their crazy prices. It is therefore them, rather than the buyers that are more likely to capitulate in most cases. Greed is much less likely to pay off now than in most of the last 35 years.

Not in our area... whoever bought it still paid massively over the odds imo.

But I agree with you on the i got "what its worth" thing

Cross posted, saying the same thing.

The other properties gardens are too small to build a separate annex.

So that's why the house you want is listed at £100k more. A decent annex would cost you most of that, if you could even get planning.

You're wasting your energy getting mad about their price. They can ask what they like and wait to see if they get it.

Not everyone wants a large garden or needs an annexe. To those people, this house isn't worth the premium over others on the street.
But you've already said the other properties on the street wouldn't work for you, so their price relative to the house you're offering on is pretty irrelevant.

Sellers don't have to accept offers. And if you're buying a house to actually live in long term, overpaying slightly isn't exactly a disaster. Particularly if you then actually get a house that works for you!

How badly do you need to move? How often do properties that meet your requirements come up? How much do they cost (including any remodeling you'd need to do)?

Advice on how to proceed - well the ONLY way to proceed at the moment is to offer what the vendor has indicated is acceptable or walk away and keep looking.
You seem to be dismissive of the value that a larger garden and an annex adds to the price yet those are the reasons why you like the property. How much would it cost you to get plans drawn up, get planning permission and then build an annex? And I don’t mean just the actual costs but the loss of time and the hassle involved.
As a PP has said, if you work it out on a daily basis over your lifetime, is it a significant cost? And how does it stack up against the costs of buying somewhere which is in your price range now and then selling that and buying your forever home after that?

It's quite common for a vendor to have decided they want "X" for a property and to not budge. Its usually a case of having done the maths they decide they need "X" for the onward purchase. Its difficult for prospective buyers because as in this case the house is clearly not well priced at "X" so the buyer has to decide how much they are prepared to overpay by. I have walked away from this kind of seller in the past because I can't stomach paying more than a fair market price - just because the seller has decided they need more.

Well it's like selling anything really isn't it

If you have time to wait you can get a higher price

Like selling books and clothes on vinted. If you're in no rush to get rid you can wait and sell for top price, if you need to clear out now, then you need to take less.

I don't think it's all that crazy that older people who don't need to move by the next school term, or ASAP because they can't do a long commute any more, and are just planning to move or down size some time in the next few years, hold out for more!

Growing families and people moving to facilitate job moves and kids school moves etc do need to take lower prices and be realistic to facilitate that

But if you are in a position where you could move this year, or next, or even the year after, why not hold firm?

I think you are the one who is disillusonal not the sellers. An annexe and larger garden are clearly worth the £100k. No point being cross with the sellers

You need to stop putting others needs above your own.
Why should your children struggle to be close to school at the expense of your buyer’s family.
Could you put the brakes on the purchase or explain that the price they offered doesn’t allow you to move quickly. If they offered slightly more , you could afford to offer 3% under asking price and wouldn’t have the cost of rented accommodation.

Yabvu

So you’re saying you could buy one of three properties priced around £900k on the same street.

But you particularly want the property priced at £1m because it is a much nicer property (better garden and annex). But you’d like to knock off 8% which is £80k. So you’re only willing to pay £920k, which is not really that much different than the 3 less-nice properties in the street. The seller will compromise at £50k but you don’t think the garden and annex are worth £50kz

Why not make an offer on the best of the other 3 properties? See if they will accept 8% off their asking price, then you’d only be paying £830k, and would have money to spare to build a small annex. If your gut reaction to this is “no way, we want the big garden and the nice annex ready-built” then there’s your answer why the fourth property has a higher valuation.

Have you researched the cost of going into rented for 6 months to a year? We did this during a falling market and we cleared up - as we banked our good sales price and waited until that equity would stretch to a better house. Huge risk!!!

We did similar a couple of years ago. We liked a house, but it wasn't worth what they thought (rose tinted glasses of a childhood home, selling after parents deaths). They thought lick of paint and all good - the house actually needed new kitchen and bathroom (each over 30 years old), full rewire and boiler (which also had to be moved as it had been installed in an unsafe location). We offered 10% less, which was immediately rejected.

The estate agents are frustrated as they agreed was overpriced, but they had already talked them down from the price they wanted to list at (another 10% more), and they had other offers even lower than ours but weren't budging.

We said OK, that's fine. That was our final offer, its on the table until we find another house we like. It was on an estate agents which had an app that told you when houses you'd viewed had viewings requested and if offers were made. A month and no viewings later I rather strategically booked a viewing with the same agents of a nearby house we weren't that keen on but knew it would be the same guy showing it. Within 24 hours we had a call asking if our offer was still on the table, and it was accepted.

Survey came back showing what we thought about wiring, unsafe boiler etc and a valuation of what we had offered, they finally stopped whinging about the price reduction but started trying to sell us the house contents. They were trying to sell us the stairlift (young couple in their early 30s, no disability that would require a stair lift), washing machine, 30 year old fridge and oven that was so old you literally had to light it with a match for thousands. It was a bit mental. But we refused and house sale eventually went through 😅

If I was the vendor here then I would definitely think that our house was the one you wanted and it is! They are in a stronger position than you are! If you thought the other houses were better you would be offering on them. However ou don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, they could still buckle and come back at a later date and accept your offer if you r strong enough to walk away. I know I wouldn’t be able to if it was the house I really liked.

Both buyer and seller have valid points. Asking 8% below which gets close to levels of similar properties that have smaller gardens and no annex does seem a bit steep though.
The fact is that if the house isn't selling then it's not worth the asking price which you have correctly identified. Of course they might hold on and get that price in 3 years time but that's not the market price RIGHT NOW.

I would ask the agent to start earning their money. They want the sale.
Ask him to go to the vendor and get them to play the following mental game.
Imagine they drop the price by 25%. How many offers would they get?
Then drop the price by 20%.How many offers?
Then 15%. Offers?
Then 10%. Offers?
Then 5%.
Then 3% Offers?
Then 0%. Offers?

It might make them realise that the house is 'worth' what the market says it is. If they correctly assume due to the actual evidence that IN CURRENT MARKET CONDITIONS (no, not last year) that there are no buyers at a 0% reduction, and maybe none (or just 1 i.e. you ) at 5% it might jog them into changing their mind a bit.

Is it possible for you to get a mortgage evaluation which might show that the house is over valued? Sorry haven't bought a place with this situation in a while!

Why do you think that you can get a higher price if you just wait? If you list your car or clothes online for an unrealistic price, they don't sell, however long you wait. In fact, things like cars or electrical items, probably clothes too, will devalue over time.
As I've said wrt the housing market, this technique can work well in a rising market. In a falling market, the property is v unlikely to sell and is either removed from the market or the seller lowers the price eventually.

But its a business transaction not a social relationship.

Your buyers wish to move more quickly is bluntly not your problem.

Your desire to “get a bargain” is not your vendors’ problem.

If they won’t drop the price, that is their choice. Its equally your choice to stay put until you find the right place to buy (and I would not incur the costs of moving into rented to help out a discount buyer’s family situation, I would only move to rented if it was financially very beneficial to me).

Take the emotion out of the situation and focus on relative costs and practical options as they benefit you. Then once you have worked out what is best for you if that helps others then great, but your priority has to be what is best for you and your family.

Check your entitlement, you have no reason to be mad they owe you nothing and you have ZERO rights to any discount.

Also it has a big garden and annex, if its a million pound house and its only £100k over others that do not then its a bargain. You are basically getting a 2nd small home and a garden (gardens add roughly 20% post covid).

Buy one of the other cheaper houses if thats what you can afford, it might not be 'perfect' but you live in your means... we all want much nicer houses than we could afford that doesn't mean we get to demand them and be mad.

Cost up the annexe (labour, materials and the cost to you for having intrusive building works) you’ll probably find that’s the 100k difference.

You sound like a nice person thinking about your buyer’s situation. But in the end, it’s a business transaction. Would it make more financial sense for you to go into rented accommodation than pay what the vendor wants for this house?

If you want to look for another house, don’t move out of your home just yet. It sounds like you have very specific requirements and it might take time to find another house that meets the requirements. Paying rent is just a drain on your finances, plus you have to move twice.