Large homes in Home Counties (Commuter area)

[Fretfulmum]

We are looking to put up for sale, DHs parents home which is a large detached type in a popular and very expensive Home Counties town. Commutable very quickly to London and usually large homes sell very quickly here. Absolutely nothing is selling that’s similar on the market right now and I really do get it. Cost of living and large homes with stamp duty £100k+, maintenance and bills etc. I’m beginning to think, who exactly is the target buyer of these homes- it can’t all just be people in their 40s with slightly older children who bought 10 years ago and now want to upsize with huge amounts of equity? Who is going to buy all these homes or am I being naive that there really are that many wealthy people who want to live in these kinds of towns and can afford it?
wondering whether to tell DHs parents to stay put for a few more years or better to get it on the market now. No real need for selling other than the house is expensive to maintain and far too big for them.

Personally I think the target market has shrunk for a few reasons.

Stamp duty is prohibitive.
Many people who would traditionally be at the stage of looking for a family home don't actually have tons of equity as they haven't been on the ladder long enough & things have stagnated for some.
Higher interest rates not only make it harder to stretch but even if you can afford X some don't want to spend thousands serving debt.
Wage stagnation/frozen tax bands/higher taxes - many have less in their pocket.
COL & an awareness that utilities & travel costs are only going to get more expensive.

Can't see the point delaying the sale by a few years, they will just get frailer and less able to cope with all the issues re downsizing. Plus the expenses of maintaining the house will continue to negatively affect them now they presumably don't have the income they once had.

Even if their house is worth less than it was at the peak of house prices, they will still have made a profit of - I'm guessing - over a million pounds - so it's not that significant is it that this is not the optimum time to sell from a purely profit point of view?

Who are the target buyers? It could be people with slightly older children as you say. It could also be people with very well paid jobs like investment bankers or city lawyers with small children wishing to move out of London to somewhere with a quick commute.

No way of telling until you put it on the market. That kind of home is in a category of its own and your target buyers are not the average family. That said there are plenty of rich people in London who might be interested in the lifestyle this house offers. Price it well and see what happens, if it doesn’t sell you can wait a few years.

You can’t predict the future or the behaviour or finances of everyone else in the UK. Get a reasonable estimate from several local estate agents and be prepared to take the best proceedable offer you get in the first six weeks. Otherwise you could be chasing the market down.
So many people stress themselves out with fantasies of what they could theoretically get. It will sell for the best they can get for it now and they want to move now.

In my commuter belt town in SE, it’s Londoners selling up and buying double the house for their money.

I think you are right @Fretfulmum. I've been making this point about the fact that there is a lot of downward pressure on house prices for various reasons for some time.

If you look purely at the demographics and ignore everything else, there will be lots of such houses coming to market over the next few years and decades as the younger silent gens and boomers who often live in them pass away. Their children and grandchildren are nowhere near as wealthy because of extreme house price inflation and stagnant wages. There are a few very wealthy people, perhaps from inheritance or a great call on bitcoin or an exceptionally well paid job but not enough to buy these very expensive homes en masse. Most rely mainly on their incomes.
Apart from that, there are the factors that you mention and then the even more major ones which are economic. I think we are heading into a recession soon now as more people have started to lose their jobs and spending has decreased. I have noticed a change in the last 2-3 months.

Therefore, if I were your PIL, I would try to sell quickly, unless there is a strong reason for them to stay, but list it at a much lower price than the competition to try to get offers. From what you say about the market there, they won't manage to sell if they don't do this. They are a fortunate generation as they will still make an excellent profit even if it is 200k less than they hoped.

I agree OP.

Im in my thirties with young kids and look at these on rightmove occasionally but… the commute would mean we never saw our kids, and the stamp duty is absolutely eye watering.

There are so many house like this and I just don’t think there’s a limitless pool of families that can afford them - particularly where only one needs to commute into London (which would make it slightly more bearable).

I have a friend who has been struggling to sell their parents house and they have the same theory as you - the families looking to upsize would need w lot of equity (which increasingly they don’t have) or / and earning what… £250K+, £300k+.

There are plenty of families looking for more space and a better lifestyle from London. Also international buyers. We know many Americans for example preparing to move to the U.K. because they are worried about the tension and safety in the US.
You have just missed the spring market I guess but could put it on next year after Christmas. I wouldn’t wait either, it might take a while to sell or go over night.

I think the ex Londoners looking for more space pipeline has dried up, if only because London flats haven’t made money over the past decade, so they aren’t sitting on lots of equity growth.

But there are a surprising number of people in the south east who can afford expensive houses - people who’ve had inheritances from grandparents or parents, plus good salaries and a previous house to sell. If children are past the nursery age then some families have freed up childcare fees they can throw at a mortgage.

Biggest factor here has been is your house in catchment for a good school.

People who in the past have built their own homes on the edges of SE commuter towns are funding the cost of construction and materials has increased substantially. They are now looking at larger houses that can be improved.

What an excellent and helpful perspective, thank you.

Thanks all. I do agree they need to get it on the market as it could be worth less in a few years. We are seeing them tomorrow to discuss it but they have mentioned they wouldn’t be selling it below £Xm as it would be “giving it away.” DH and I just roll our eyes. I don’t think they quite realise how lucky they are to be in this position.
DH and I earn what many could only dream of, started off with a flat in London etc, and we know we are very lucky, but we still wouldn’t be able to afford in laws house at that kind of price.

It definitely makes sense to sell it whilst they are able to downsize but people can be very stubborn about what price they think their house is worth. Good luck!

Good Luck @Fretfulmum

You and your DH sounds sensible and realistic @Fretfulmum
It's strange how the older generation, who have gained so much from house price inflation are sometimes so unappreciative of this fact and particularly intransigent wrt pricing. Not all, of course, but proportionally far more, in my experience.
I hope they might the best decision for themselves.

I think they just believe the narrative the press feed them: house prices never, ever go down.

I also think there's a sense of pride involved - nobody wants to see their house sell for less than their neighbour's did two years ago.

But, as the saying goes, pride comes before a fall.

I don't know who they are and where their money comes from but there are definitely plenty of young families who are able to access the money to buy expensive properties. I've seen it a lot in the village where my parents live where there are lots of beautiful listed properties in the 1-2 million bracket and when they sell people move in with their toddlers. And not only do they manage to buy the houses, they can immediately do expensive work to the property, so there's loads of money out there. I think the bigger homes suffer more in the current quite stagnant market not because of a lack of money but because they depend more on chains to form before anyone is in a position to offer. You don't just need one buyer, in effect you need two, three or more sales in place to get the top of the chain sold.

I suppose in many cases if we’re talking about the older generation- pensioners say - it’s not just what the press feed them but what they have observed with their own properties.

Not that they have always increased in value in a straight line but that they have gone up over a large number of years (in most cases, including OPs in laws).

How old are they and what is the “quick commute"?

Around my way properties at that price still sell quickly but its very area variable. Local services and schools, actual commute time (as opposed to train into London time) and size of plot are all big factors which can cause price variations between areas in the commuter belt.

Unless they are of an age where moving has become imperative it may well make more sense to sit it out for a couple of years and look at the climate then.

Whilst its true that 30/40 somethings in the SE are often at an earlier stage of parenthood and with less equity than the previous generation who started work and families earlier they are all the generation which will be inheriting the early boomer/late greatest generation assets. The differences in wealth within generations dwarf differences between.

I live in a Northern Home Counties village which is commuting belt. Very noticeable that the large family homes which are £700K+ are struggling to sell. Property that didn't sell last Autumn were put back on the market in the Spring and still not selling. They are gradually reducing.

Yes, maybe it's that and the fact that they have been so fortunate with their unearned gains on assets that they simply don't believe that prices can do anything other than go up. Perhaps middle/younger generations tend to be a bit more realistic and cynical because they have had different experiences.

I’m probably in the bracket of people who might have considered a house like this - late 30s, primary age kids, good amount of equity, high earners. But despite earning an eye watering salary, as we have never benefited from parental help or inheritance (and never will), we can’t afford both mortgage and school fees, or for only one person to work, which means that we would only make a move like this if the school catchment was rock solid, and even then only if we felt that the commute was worth it, so very very area dependent.

The problem with londoners moving out in my view is that I can live in London in a £1.2m semi detached property with both DH and I working and paying a sizeable mortgage but still see my daughter after work as commute is short and quick. Yes we could move out to commuter vile for more space for a similar price but we’d have longer commutes and see our daughter less. So we wouldn’t be swapping £1.2m for £1.2m as I’d probably reduced my days due to the commute. Even if it is commutervile.

Not sure how but plenty of people seem to have money where I am and no idea how to be honest. Put it up and you may be surprised

I've noticed this trend in our district too, and am hoping against hope that it stops developers building so many of these 'executive' homes, and concentrate on more affordable 2/3 bed homes for ordinary folk who work locally.

I'm guessing it's perhaps St Albans.

I know a lot of people (young ish) who work in London, some in banking, others where they have had large bonuses, who are able to buy a £1M home in their mid-late 30s, with or without children.

It's not that unusual which is why houses in cities like St Albans are so expensive- because it's a nicer lifestyle than being in the suburbs of London.

You just need to market it and see what happens.