How much can we ask for off of the agreed sale price following the survey

[SherbertLemons]

Hello

we would love some advice on price negotiations for a house we are in the process of buying.

the house is a semi in a desirable Oxfordshire village.

Offer accepted £600k (full asking price). We were the first to see it, then they had two viewings and condition of our offer was it as taken off the market.

the house needs a lot of modernisation as it hasn’t been updated for about 50 years. The gentleman who was living there has gone into care and half the house is owned by his late wife’s estate (1st marriage) so there are two separate families involved; one side will get half the sale proceeds (to be divided between two children) and the other half will be used for the gentleman’s care home fees.
we could see when we viewed we needed a full survey so that’s what we got (level 3 RICS).

The survey split issues into three parts 1) minor 2) needs looking at but not immediate and 3) serious immediate issues.
the surveyor suggested we get additional reports from various professionals (electrician, structural engineer, roofer, damp, asbestos inspector etc). We have not got all the additional reports (and paid over 1.5k for them).

just concentrating on the level 3 issues, the additional reports/surveys and quotes have said there is 75k worth of repairs needed (not renovations, just repairs to make it safe and compliant with regs). We were a bit shocked but it needs a whole new roof for example which is the majority of the above sum. It need a whole new rewire and asbestos removal which is surprisingly expensive.

so now we need to go back to the agent and negotiate. We really do want the house. If the work was done we couldn’t afford a house in the villiage but, that said the work required to make it safe is extensive and expensive.

anyone else buying it will find the same issues and we are only concentrating on the most serious issues in the survey. We have used the agents preferred surveyor and only sought quotes from trades he or the agent recommended.

i should also state my DH is quite handy with DIY and has renovated houses before so we are not as put off as other buyers may be. It would be our forever home (maybe) and we are in our late 30s so have time. We would have to remortgage in a couple of years to do the major works and would make good until then.

we are in rented after selling out house so we are good buyers they hopefully don’t want to lose.

so, thanks for reading this far…..what would you ask for discount wise given the quotes and survey results?

we were thinking all of it less the VAT, so 80% of the quotes. Will they laugh at us? Is that too cheeky?!?

any advice on how much to ask for or how to praise it would be so appreciated.

house buying is so stressful!!!

You should put in an offer for what it is worth to you. If that is refused walk away. Then if it goes for a little more you will not regret it. If you lowball it and then keep coming back with a bit more they may well see you as trying to game the price and will be more likley to be refused.

Up to current building regs is a non starter - no building unless built yesterday meets current code but that doesn’t t mean it’s dangerous. And majority of surveys suggest extra reports because they are not experts in all areas and are covering their butts.
The house is unmodernised. You knew this. Everything you have mentioned comes within that. If I was the seller I would not renegotiate with you.

As others have said and you yourself have sorta of alluded it to by saying you couldn’t afford a done up property the house seems to be priced to already take into consideration the extra works.

If you asked for £60k off I’d tell you to do one tbh.

..the house needs a lot of modernisation as it hasn’t been updated for about 50 years.

So you knew it was a fixer upper in need of total renovation when you offered. You can't now pretend that it's unexpected work to have to update it and rewire.

Thank you all for your input. It is appreciated.

The housing stock in the village differs so much it’s hard to know exactly how this has been priced. It’s a period property (pre war) and newer houses seem to be priced around the same (but they don’t need work). But I like period, and those of us that do are willing to pay a premium and I get that.

I think the agent will have priced it to reflect it needs renovation (modernisation), for sure. I’m just not whether they or the families appreciated how much structural work is required etc to make it safe. rewire for example, the condition report says it’s unsafe, it’s 50 years old. The roof is buggered. I’m no roofer but I can see from the pics it’s more than replacing a few tiles. The rafters are infested with beetle and that needs treating. The flat roof extension is completly rotten through. The asbestos is in the garage ceiling and apparently needs to go but I don’t know much about asbestos. Maybe it could be plastered over.

i think we will have to sit and think about how much we really want it and how much we would be willing to accept off the asking before walking away.

they would get more viewings for sure. But we are chain free and they need it selling asap to fund the care fees. Other buyers are going to get the same surveys and identify the same issue so I would have thought looking at the reports the sellers would think that’s a huge amount of work so maybe some discount is appropriate as it’s not renovation it’s putting back what’s there now to a safe standard for a family to live in.

i appreciate it’s different depending on which view you look at it from.

we love the house but are a little scared we are thinking with our hearts not our heads. But we want to be brave and do all the work to make it a lovely home. We are just thinking aloud and thank you for your input.

If I were the seller I'd tell you to do one too. In fact I did when we sold our last house. Our Buyers had survey after survey done on our nice and perfectly liveable in house then came back asking for about £60k to be taken off. Not a chance.

I think you've been taken for a ride by the EA if I'm honest - using the surveyor they recommended then all the extra specialist surveyors they recommended. I don't doubt the EA will be taking some commission for all these recommendations! They are all bound to find something wrong with the house! The electrics one comes up time and time again and I agree with PP that unless the roof's leaking, I doubt it needs replacing to make the house safe.

Re-read your post... you paid out for what extra surveyors specifically?

Structural Engineer, Asbestos sampling, Electrician’s condition report, Gas Safe check, Damp and Timber Specialist, Roofing Survey

My house is a 70s semi. On the level 2 report I had the same issues

• electrics aren't up to standard (everyone on the estate has the same electrics, I've never seen any newly bought homes getting a full rewire: the only time I've had an issue was with installing an induction hob which required a new fuse box)

• roof is unstable, needs replacing (same as every house on the estate, only roof that's been replaced was one struck by lightening, had the ridge tiles reset but nothing else has collapse/fallen in on 10 years)

• possible asbestos due to the age of the house (again, nothing unusual for the age - I needed an asbestos report before the insurance would touch the ceiling that needed fixing after the boiler leaked, none found and perfectly ok as long as you don't disturb it)

Interestingly the gas boiler which WAS inspected and serviced before exchange has gone twice in 10 years.

Unless you need to replace the roof/ceilings/walls/electrics as they're unsafe there's no way you could ask for 75k off the asking price!

I think you need to decide what you’d be willing to pay knowing these would need to be done - if they say yes then great - if not then so be it. I would focus on the roof and electrics. The asbestos is irrelvant unless you’re planning on knocking down the garage?

I would be completely open with the sellers and share your reports. Be honest, you want to buy the house but weren’t expecting these issues and work with them to come to an agreeable price reduction.

think the sellers circumstances could go one of two ways..because it’s not their house and there’s less emotion involved they just want it sold…equally with more people involved and essentially two lots of decision makers could cause more problems!

Someone tried this with my grandmother’s house. We put it back on the market and sold 4 weeks later with a bidding war between two couples. Ended up getting £200k more than original sale price. In a renovation it’s very much how much you’re prepared to pay.

Things I’d expect in a house not modernised for 50 years would be:
needs re wiring (they always seem to say this in any house over 10 years old)
roof will need attention
potential asbestos (I’d get an inspection to understand how soon it needs to be dealt with then possibly negotiate a bit if it is urgent)

waiting for a survey on a renovation is a dick move. We considered a renovation and took a builder with us on second viewing to get quotes then incorporated that into our offer. We didn’t end up offering as the work was beyond us.

When we sold our first house our buyers’ survey also stated that the roof must be replaced immediately or the world was going to end. We had been living in the house perfectly ok, no leaks, nothing, everything warm and dry. We did go down in price but only by around 4k. I think it would be quite a cheeky offer to reduce by 80 percent of the full renovation costs (if I understood correctly). In the end you would massively benefit from the works.

rewire for example, the condition report says it’s unsafe, it’s 50 years old.
Hahaha. 50 Yr old wiring isn't automatically unsafe. Mine is the original 1950s wiring and is fine. If I was replastering then I would update otherwise not.

The rafters are infested with beetle and that needs treating. The flat roof extension is completly rotten through.
The beetle infestation would worry me tbf. What has pest control said about it? Is it a timber boring beetle?
Flat roofs are notorious for leaking so not surprised at that either. Did you not notice any leaks/stains inside at viewing?

The asbestos is in the garage ceiling and apparently needs to go but I don’t know much about asbestos. Maybe it could be plastered over.
This only needs to be dealt with if the ceiling is cracked or broken (or dismantled). If the ceiling is in a decent condition then it's also fine.

"We would have to remortgage in a couple of years to do the major works and would make good until then."

If you can wait years to do the major works, it can't be that major, or that unsafe. So what exactly are you asking for a price reduction for?

I’m just not whether they or the families appreciated how much structural work is required etc to make it safe. rewire for example, the condition report says it’s unsafe, it’s 50 years old.

They'd want to have been born yesterday not to know that a house that hadn't been updated for 50 years was in need of a rewire.

There are only two real factors, firstly you must estimate the value of the home without issues. If it's a lot more than you are paying then I would assume the works are already built into the price.
Secondly how easily & quickly would they be able to find another willing buyer at the same price level. Given the situation you describe, it sounds like they priced it competitively, again suggesting it took into account works needed.

I would think you were taking the pee to suggest you want a further discount because of works needed which were obvious and the price already reflects the work. You need to decide if you're prepared to walk away or suck it up.

We are selling a similar house at £400k. We knocked £10k off as a gesture because the buyers were cash buyers with a good offer on their house, but we wouldn’t have gone any lower. (They anwked for £20k off). Our house wasn’t even on the market - we’d have put it on and seen what other interest it would have got before dropping any lower. The price reflected the work needing to be done. So I wouldn’t expect much wiggle in this case. And in my experience surveyors generally say everything needs replacing. You’d be better off taking a good builder round.

Was it advertised as requires updating and modernisation

No. Not at all. Obviously we can see it needs work but no, not advertised as such

I think the asbestos in the garage and rewiring are pretty standard for the age of the property and given you offered for it knowing it needs work and it is underpriced for the area, you probably won’t get anywhere with that. The wood infestation/new roof might be more likely to warrant a reduction in price but they may just put it back on the market.

The rafters are infested with beetle and that needs treating. The flat roof extension is completly rotten through.

I think this is your only real bargaining chip.
The rest they knew when they put it on the market, old electrics etc.
But the roof appears to be in worse condition than you or they expected.
So I would bargain with this, and try and get some of the cost of the new roof off form the price. But I think as others have sais, they priced it knowing it was a renovation project.

I'm with the majority here - sounds like you are taking the piss. You're buying a reno project, you know that - you described in your first post that you could see you "needed a full survey". To now act all surprised that it needs work and expect huge amounts of money off, is just ridiculous.

The town I live in had massive growth in the 70s, pretty much all the housing stock was built then, yet I'm not seeing loads of homes being rewired, rooves being replaced. It a massive job to rewire a house, you'd think it would be a national crisis if all houses 50 years or older had to be rewired to make them safe to inhabit!

What I hope you aren't doing is taking advantage of their need to pay care home fees.

I'm no expert but I'd imagine the LA are funding them currently to be repaid when the house is sold. Any POA involved will legally need to obtain best value, so cant just give a place away, and if the owner himself is still in charge he will probably be my father's age who is likely (after the gentleman's agreement offer you have) to say you can go swivel! (Even if a degree of renegotiation is fair). Never underestimate the ability of an aged parent to be awkward!

Equally, don't overpay.

Thank you for everyone who has taken time to comment. Lots of good for thought. We certainly don’t want to take the piss, far from it, despite how my post seems to have come across. It’s been good to get everyone’s thoughts. I think we were just a bit shocked at the quotes we received but appreciate it’s not just about the quotes, there are lots of factors at play here. We want to proceed. Hopefully we can find a way forward that everyone will feel comfortable with.