Home we are buying has subsidence

[OrwellianTimes]

Got the survey report yesterday, I’m kicking myself that I didn’t spot it, but it’s on a side of a wall of the house’s porch that we didn’t look at.

zig-zag line up the brickwork that has been filled but looks to have moved since filling.

survey says:

• There is indication of minor structural movement / subsidence
• No treatment needed but monitoring should be put in place and measured every 6 months.
• there are roots in one of the drains.
• there is evidence of re rendering done badly on another rendered wall in a line.

This house is at our max budget. We are unlikely to have the capital to fix big issues for some years.

Do we walk away? It’s a lovely house, the one we loved the most, but it’s not perfect- small kitchen, funny shaped lounge. Outstanding views. Lovely garden. Great bedroom space.

My childhood home had subsidence. It was fully underpinned, paid for by previous owner's insurance. Parents had to have the cracks monitored for years afterwards. I can't recall the exact timelines, but eventually the insurers paid out the full potential value of the house to them, which by then was substantially more than they bought it for, because it was supposedly still moving. The house is still there 40 years on with no further evidence of movement. Mum is still living there.

So, I wouldn't write it off, but I would investigate very carefully about what has or hasn't already been done and what might be needed before coming to a decision.

How long had the house been on the market before you decided to buy and had it been reduced from the original asking price ? Sometimes you have to consider why a house in an established expensive area is being sold at under market value.

At least 18 months - but that isn’t unusual in the area tbh, there’s about 30 houses in the same price bracket that haven’t shifted. The market got too greedy IMO and pushed prices to SE England prices when it’s no where near SE England. There’s also been a massive very popular new build estate which has sold every single house like a hot cake (the houses not selling are priced more than the new builds were).

However I found a historical listing yesterday from 3 years ago and it’s clearly the same furniture. I’ve been watching the market for 14 months and it’s not uncommon for a house to be re-listed to make it look like a new listing.

I have not said you cannot get insurance if the house isn’t underpinned - reread my posts. Around here for properties predating the deeper foundations rules its an advantage to be underpinned as they will all likely be over the next couple of decades - every hot dry summer pulls more into the work.

And yes huge numbers of houses in and around London are underpinned, its common as muck which is why LAs in London commonly require all plans for underpinning to be staged to cover the whole property even if initial work stage is only for one part. I remember being staggered at the percentage quoted to me by my insurer even 20 years ago and we have had multiple drout years since then.

You might find the info about foundations online for a late 80s house - its borderline though in most LAs.

You definitely need expert advice. If this is a potential forever or long term home that may well be worth it to you, especially if you have invested a lot already. Call a structural engineer and ask to discuss a potential survey - you might get a few immediate answers which would help you decide whether to get the report and proceed or to pull out at this stage. Ask around locally as well, locals should know the norm for the area.

drout = drought of course. Thought I’d fixed that typo

You are definitely on top of the situation and have done plenty of research. There are lots of factors to consider both positives and negatives. You are considering this purchase as an investment for the future so it has to work financially for you. If time and finances allow it might be a good idea to get a structural engineer survey and quote on fixing the subsidence problem and whether or not it needs to be done immediately. However if you are at your maximum spend with the purchase alone and any costly repairs are out of the question even in the future then maybe this is not the best property for you. The cost of repairs and making sure that in future the property is saleable could make a serious dent in any profit that you make on your sale price. However if the purchase price is so low now that your future profit could be substantial then it might be worth taking the risk. It's a difficult decision and I wish you all the best.

Is it just the porch that's pulling away? I think they often have shallower foundations - is it even a new addition or part of the original house?. We bought a house that had a history of subsidence in a sought after area. Lived there for 30 years. Sold it in January with no problems at all given there had been no claims for subsidence in the past 5 years.

@OrwellianTimes 3 years?
If no one else has wanted this house in 3 years, I’d be treading very carefully, possibly in the other direction.

It must be well over priced.

We put in an offer for a property years ago (without knowing it'd have substantial subsidence), at that point we were given details of an insurance claim vendors had been through, property had obviously had a number of outside cracks and the flooring had cracked in kitchen, and was supposedly secure.

It was easy to view property from three boundaries, so DH drove there to have a looked around and realised there was a further crack (since the claim) as it had not been filled in. We walked away. Would have been a lovely home, but we don't have any regrets. Long-term we ended up buying a smaller house, but in a much nicer area (where we've lived for 26 years now).

There is absolutely no point in taking on a problem house unless you are a builder. Or have the money to fix it and get it dirt cheap. Since this isn't the case then you must walk away.

I’d walk away. You’re at the top end of your budget with no room for major repairs. If you had money to spare, would be different, but top end of budget always worries me. IMO no one should go to the max buying anything that has potential for needing repairs. It’s a house. There’s always something. Knowing it has issues from day one makes it high risk of something coming up.
If the porch is an add on and doesn’t affect the rest of the house structure that would be cause to pause, but I’d always be wary of stretching myself to my max. No one knows what’s in front of them and everyone should leave room for manoeuvre.

Can’t you offer less, taking potential repairs into consideration? Isn’t that what the survey is for? To give a value ? The price they want , what they ask for, does not have to be what you will agree to pay. They can refuse but the only way to bring an overpriced market down is to refuse to pay the high price. It’s buyers competing that pushes prices up.

Walk away!

Sorry - I haven't read all your posts but wondered if I could contribute a thought from my own experience?

My parents moved to live near me and their new house got subsidence during the heatwave that happened two or three years ago. It was incredibly common at the time and loads of houses got it.

The subsidence was fixed by cutting down a massive tree, and will not re-occur. The house is very safe, and has been completely repaired.

If the house that you are thinking about buying is like this then it might still be worth buying it if you can negotiate a substantial reduction. Espcially if you want to stay there for a long time.

I don't know how mortgage and insurance would work though.

The fact that there are roots in the drains suggests you may just have a rogue tree on your hands.

Yes the old photos show there was a very tall pine type tree in the garden that’s been removed in last two years maybe - there’s also a lot of large bushes that are still in situ - not conifers but I think box honeysuckle

Note that cutting down large trees can cause aa well as cure subsidence. Large trees use a lot of water and when they are removed then the excess water can cause other issues
Ultimately my previous point remains, if you like the house and it's what you want then getting a structural engineer to determine extent of issue is crucial. The vendors need to pay for this as any buyer will have this problem. So there's no point in them refusing as they won't be able to sell. That's the only way to move forward

I'd walk away, when I was growing up buying and selling the houses we lived in was my mother's only hobby- any major work being needed is not worth it.
We needed a damp proof course in a cottage made of flint nodules-she should have walked away.
It sounds as if the house will need underpinning and/or the main drain replacing because it is collapsing. The owners obviously know and tried to cover it up- the key thing is the rendering to make it less obvious shows movement, which means the settlement is ongoing.
This house is at your max budget, it is unlikely you would have to get work done for safety in your lifetimes, but if you want to resell at any time it would have to be addressed- so if this is your forever home , and the mortgage provider has no beef with it-fine, if you will need to resell later down the road I'd walk away.
As others have said it will also be super expensive to insure.

Yes agree removing trees can be an issue as well as a cure. I would get my own structural engineer report paid for by a discount or at least ensure that the guarantees on the report are for me, not the previous owners.

One other thought occurred - if there are still trees around, especially if they have TPOs then local tree officers can be helpful and have particular expertise on local soil types and the impact of differing types of tree on water uptake, shrinkage and heave. In our area they are very helpful - lots of protected trees on clay soil - and will even talk to insurers if needed.

Yes, walk away. Insurance will be a nightmare unless the current insurer will accept you!
You now have a report saying it had movement. You can’t, honestly, answer the subsidence, heave or land slip question “no”.
Plus you don’t want to be the neighbours’ “bad guy”. Once movement in an area is known it blights the neighbours addresses too!

This house will end up breaking your heart. Walk away.

Apart from anything, you’ll never be able to sell it.

There will be other houses. I wouldn’t want to proceed with this one that could have potential problems.

If your budget were to allow for the extra insurance premiums and possible remedial action required that’s another matter, but this doesn’t appear to be the case.

Huge red flags of being for sale three years prior, then a rest and then eighteen months. Others have come up with the same problem and decided to walk away. The vendor needs to fix the issues and make good. Then remarket with relevant guarantees in place. However I realise these aren’t exactly bulletproof either.

This house wouldn’t be for me as it hasn’t been for the others who have already wisely chosen to bailout.