Should we reduce by over 15% (75k)?!

[BunnyWilliams]

House was listed in September last year at 475k. This was after 3 identical valuations by local agents. We are in a VERY slow moving market with a lot of houses in our bracket sitting for at least 6 months before selling, if not a year.

We dropped to 450k after a few weeks of no interest. It didnt seem to do anything. Then we finally accepted an offer of 448k in January and then lost our buyers 7 weeks ago. Relisted with our vendors' agent 5 weeks ago at 440k.

We've had 4 viewing requests since then, 2 actual viewings (a potential 3rd next week) but no offers or usable feedback. We've only had 6 viewings total in all the time we've been for sale.

I asked our agent what his professional opinion was on what we should do about next steps/price. It's worth mentioning at this point that our vendors' are still waiting for us (apparently they are "very relaxed" about it). Our agent has today said that he thinks we should consider dropping to offers over 400k. DH and I are a bit taken aback to be honest. A 75k/15% reduction on our original listing price seems huge when we've previously had a much higher offer and have had several comments from people on what good value the house is.

The bottom line is that we absolutely cannot accept below 413k. We need 95k for the deposit on the new house and with stamp duty etc., this is our absolute rock-bottom figure and would leave us with £0 to take to the new house. We were originally planning on retaining 50k to relocate the kitchen to the dining room and create a utility and downstairs wc. The house is 'livable' without these things but it would make life a lot more difficult due to the house layout and having a young family.

I know it's hard for anyone to comment because you don't know this house or this market but I'm just at a complete loss as to what we do. We won't do anything to the price before the next potential viewing, of course.

Help!!!

Why don’t you post a Rightmove link?

My sister was in a similar position when she moved house ten years ago. A house that was on paper worth far more than anyone was offering. A slightly shabby but much loved gem. Fast forward she took much less than she wanted in her eagerness to move on. (New part of UK due to job change)House was purchased and to their disbelief gutted. All her improvements were ripped out. The price drop was because it was being sold unbeknown to her as a fixer upper by estate agent. She felt heartbroken despite loving new house, and kicked herself for not hanging on a bit longer for the right buyer. Ten years later she feels she made a hasty decision to sell for less than the house was worth as the market rallied in that part of the uk. And the house was a gem which certainly didn't need gutting.
The point of this moral tale is, who knows what your present house will be worth next year. ? And who knows whether the house you want to move to is the right house?

But if you want to remodel the new house there is no reason to suppose the person buying from you might not have the same plan...the value is what people will pay not the "true" value.

In your position if you feel the house is being undervalued I would hang on a bit longer and lose your ongoing house. Unless it is completely unsuitable your present house must have something going for it for you to feel it is worth the current price...surely it wouldn't matter to keep looking for the new purchase ...maybe one which has a more suitable layout too?

Houses in this area are moving very slowly too and the main issue seems to be lots of choice so buyers aren't compromising with anything unless they have a significant bargain.
Your onward purchase may be well aware that building work is more expensive now, that most people offering will want to modernise and are hanging on to you for dear life as you haven't dropped your offer. You could of course discuss that with them...dropping your offer

I did that once before when we first listed. I don't want to do it again! I regretted 'outing' myself like that.

It's a 5 bed Georgian character cottage/old farmhouse. 2,000 sq ft and loads of character features (beams in every room, inglenook fireplace etc.). We're in a "posh" village in North Yorkshire. Downsides are that we're next to the main road and have a courtyard cottage garden.

Also be creative in your thinking .. do you really need a utility room or a big kitchen diner...or even a downstairs loo (we managed our three kids without either for many many years and we still don't have a downstairs loo) Serving hatch? Washing machine in upstairs bathroom or cupboard? What you need with kids is living space a garden and possibly two largish bedrooms for two parents two kids and you will manage!

This is the compromise I think we're probably willing to make. We're moving for more outside space and a better location and this house has both those things in spades.
We don't currently have a downstairs loo either. We managed potty training twice and me being heavily pregnant without it and although it is sometimes a pain, it's not something that's a deal-breaker, more a 'nice to have'.
The current kitchen in the house is pretty dated but seems in OK condition. It's more that we can't fit a table in there so I'd be constantly running back and forth from one room to the next while the kids are at the table crafting/eating/doing homework while I do things in the kitchen. Not ideal.

My first thought is...could you buy some more land or garden plot locally ? Double glazing? It sounds wonderful AND the devil you know. Could this be a temporary blip that the house isn't working for you just at the moment
Things could improve. Again I know people who lived in large and beautiful house with no garden who had allotments and did a lot of sport, and they are still in it 25 years later. (This is in Bath)

Of course, the house you are buying is hanging on, you have offered what they want, and you are dropping on your sale price. You are losing out, not them. I bet if you pull out of your purchase, they go back on at a lower price as the market is adjusting atm to the cost of living crisis and high borrowing for mortgages (compared to a few years ago, not the 1980s)

There's really nothing coming on the market that we like at all. This house gave us both 'the feeling' and it ticks the boxes in terms of the reasons why we're moving. Since we started looking last September, there has only been this and one other house that we've been seriously interested in, so I do worry that if we lose this house we may very well not be able to move.

@SwornToSilence Quite possibly. They were originally on at 650k and then dropped to offers over 600k. We put in 610k which was accepted.

I'm curious about going back to them with a lower offer but slightly concerned they'd just tell us to jog on. It's a holiday let property, not their home, so a bit of a different situation for them.

Not really, unfortunately. We already have double-glazing - it's not the noise from the road, you can barely hear it in the house but more the safety aspect with a flighty dog and my constant concern that someone will leave the front door open. We have parking in front of the house but it's directly open to the road beyond and not possible to fence at all.

We live as much in the countryside as you can get really. A few steps from the Pennine Way and with fields in every direction. It's not for lack of accessible space but more our own outdoor space for the 3 children and the dog. There's just no way we can create more of that without moving.

Most people with enough kids to need a 5 bed home, won’t want a postage stamp garden or to live next to a main road. I’d imagine £475k is a lot for North Yorkshire?

People are having fewer children and combined with a crap economy, I would imagine people are put off in lots of ways.

Why did your buyers pull out?

If you’re in a rush to sell, you’ll need to heavily reduce the price, as you say, the markets dire. If you can hold on, I’d say take the house off the market for a month or two and try again.

Why are you moving to a house that needs structural change? I’d hold off and find a house that you love the way it is. Doing work is rarely financially worth it these days.

Funnily enough, almost everyone that has been to view has been couples in their 40s/50s. No families except our ex buyers who had just one teenager.

440k (the current price) isn't a lot for our village. One very similar to ours but 3 bed sold for 460k a few months ago. Most of the houses the same size as ours but a bit further from the road fetch upwards of 680k.

I wouldn't class moving a kitchen as structural change personally. We haven't ever lived in a house where we didn't make some changes. I enjoy it and think for us to find something perfect inside with the space we want outside would be over our budget. As we've learnt the hard way, you can't change the outside space but you can do a lot about the inside!

Our buyers pulled out after they were spooked by the survey. It's such a long story but basically the surveyor did us dirty on the survey (we know this for a fact after then getting our own done). We got contractors in, fixed the very minor things that were actually genuine problems but they said the whole experience had put them off.

Isn’t it possible that the reason you’ve had no families view it is because it’s not suitable for young families and that’s obvious from the listing? And those few couples who have viewed it haven’t proceeded to offer, except the ones who were spooked?

I live in the SE where houses used to fly off the market but are much slower generally now. I recently sold a cul de sac house within days of going on the market - twice (also lost buyers). Bought a house on a main road that had been on the market for a year. Buyers are much more discerning now and most people don’t want to be on a main road. A slow market means the few buyers there are, are becoming fussier.

Im not trying to be pessimistic, of course it’s possible your buyer is around the corner. Im just trying to point out why it’s possible your house isn’t worth what you’re asking for in today’s market. With the main road and small garden putting people off, you need to appeal to people who would otherwise have no hope of affording your area/size house. To do this, you’ll need to drop the price so your house starts looking like a great deal, despite the compromises. That’s essentially why I’ve moved to a main road, the house I have now was a steal for the space.

I called moving a kitchen into a dining room structural because usually it will involve hefty plumbing and electrical jobs along with bringing up floors, all very expensive these days. Unless the utilities are already in situ, I’d estimate it to be in the tens of thousands. Whether you get that back would be debatable. With a £600k budget I’d be looking to find something already suitable.

It sounds like you are very flexible about some things....namely renovations...so there must be another, less immediately attractive, house out there,which is cheaper than 610£ with a big garden. If houses with five bedrooms can be had for 475k there must be smaller houses with bigger gardens, somewhere, for not much over that. Even the main road doesn't matter if you have a big garden at the back and a fence, proper gate at front. City dwellers have to deal with front doors and busy roads day in day out; we have cats dogs and small children - there is a compromise somewhere but not a magical one! The market is what it is right now, you can't magic it away but there is plan c out there, a cheaper house to move to which ticks the most important of your boxes, a big garden.

It would be helpful if I'd remembered to say that we bought the house 4 years ago for 399,950.

Sadly, I think the answer is probably to stay where you are and try again in a few years.

So that people can tell you it needs some new fluffy cushions and vases of fresh flowers to make it sell.

Bottom line is if it’s not selling then the price is too high. If you can’t afford to reduce the price to a level where it will sell, then you can’t afford to move.

But that "loss" doesn't matter if the house you move to is cheaper than you are presently allowing for, OR if you decide not to do those renovations just now, in the 610k house.
It sounds like the 610k house is too big a step up from your existing, when you can add value (value to you as a family, not the market) in a more ordinary house with a big safe garden.

If you get an offer at the reduced price you may well be able to negotiate a similar reduction on the house you are buying. Worth a try. Your estate agent will do the negotiation for you.

Do you think it might be the fact that it's terraced that's putting people off? Even though it's a lovely, rather posh terrace? I'd have it, even with the main road, if I could afford it and was looking to move up that way!

I think from the details you have given that I recall your original post (I won't link). If I'm right it's a beautiful but quite rural location and as you say here probably quite a niche market for a large character home with limited outside space. I think there is probably a limited pool of buyers and if the local market is slow anyway then it may be a case of waiting for the right buyer to fall in love with it.

It depends how motivated you are to move. We lost money on a property several years ago as we wanted to relocate. It was a difficult decision but in the end we felt it was better to move on with our lives even if financially wasn't great and means we will be paying a mortgage into later life. If you are still coming away with equity and your next move is for a long term home in a better location for your young family then sometimes letting go of the financial side and focussing on the benefits the move will bring is the right choice if it gets the sale through?

The pp saying it sounds expensive for N.Yorks obviously aren't local as it's a really pricy county with national parks, coast and dales so many areas are very desirable!

I remember your beautiful house, OP. It's really really lovely! The right buyer will fall in love with it. And courtyard gardens are very normal for those kinds of properties. I've got a courtyard myself, with a few steps past it to the moor. I think everyone buying in your area will not be completely put off by a courtyard garden because, demonstrably, loads of people live in houses with them and presumably bought them at some point.

475k doesn't sound insane to me (also in a pretty part of Yorkshire). Round here a house like that would be about 450k.

I remember this. Very hard house to value.

Large and pretty inside but tiny garden and close to a road.

Peak market was probably about the beginning of 22 as interest rates went up so you bought around peak IIRC, although obviously the market is different in different areas.

My guess is your sellers are sitting tight because they aren't getting any offers for an overpriced property either. Which maybe suggests some opportunity to get them to drop their price.