Am I right to be furious about this?

[BriceNobeslovesMurielHeslop]

Hi all,
I’m a newish house owner, in that I bought a little house with a garden last year after owning a flat for a while. Obviously owning a house comes with a few extra repairs and things so I just wanted to probe the Mumsnet hive mind before hitting the roof.
My house is a bit of a cosmetic fixer upper, nothing very big but does need some bits a pieces done. One of these things is that there isn’t a Ramsey ladder into the loft yet (I promise that becomes relevant later).
Back at the end of January there was a huge storm where I live, so much so that we were issued a “stay at home” style warning. One of these glass panes from the little loft window blew out, I didn’t know until the next morning, when my neighbour saw it from the bottom of his garden.
My insurance company instructed me that they didn’t have enough emergency glaziers to meet demand after the storm, and to organise someone independently. I phoned an emergency glazier, who quoted me £320 to board the window. Ok, that’s steep, but I was so worried about water ingress (and also squirrels getting into the loft) that I agreed. They took my bank details on the day, and a man attended the next day. He was in and out in 20mins top, and left without reporting any concerns.
A few days later £390 left my account - apparently VAT wasn’t included. Ok, I didn’t ask, lesson learned.
This weekend I had another glazier come and give me a quote for a repair. He went up into the loft, and when he came down stated he was shocked that the first company would charge me so much, and that there is a three inch gap at the bottom of the board, where it’s just been left to the elements.
I’m pretty upset. The new glazier says they should have used plastic from the outside the seal the hole, that it’s just a bad job, and in his opinion I should be refunded for the whole job. The original glaziers have refuted all responsibility stating
a) I’ve left it too late to raise any objection (well, how could I know. I also suspect it’s easier to do a shoddy job when you know somebody can’t see what you’ve done) and
b) they just “made it safe” (no, they didn’t. The hole is too small for anybody to crawl through, plus it’s right up on the roof. The man concern would be water ingress, and they’ve failed to stop that).

Sorry this is so long, I’m so sure the original glaziers is in the wrong but am not really sure how to proceed. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Small claims court? Or did the insurance reimburse you for paying for the work as they instructed you to get someone independent, In which case contact them?
You can also report him to citizens advice consumer service for bad workmanship and they report it to Trading Standards, iirc you can’t contact TS directly, it has to be reported through CA.

it’s easier to do a shoddy job when you know somebody can’t see what you’ve done

eh, unless theres a massive drip feed where you are a wheelchair user or elderly and frail etc... then why on earth couldn't you see it? (if you are the council run a handman scheme for the vulnerable who physically cannot DIY with much lower set prices).

I have never in my life lived in a house that had a built in loft ladder, and of the countless houses I viewed in the last 2 years only 1 had one (it was a partial non legal loft conversion). I'm also disabled with mobility issues but have managed when needed to get up into the loft.

There no real reason you have provided that says you couldn't go up in the loft, its a fairly standard task.

In my experience, tradesmen regularly slag off each others' work, so I would take what 2nd glazier says with a large heap of salt.

And, why haven't you been up into the loft to check for yourself? My area was affected by red weather warning in January - maybe the same storm - and the next day I checked my roof by looking at it from the outside and also by going into the loft.

OP very clearly stated she doesn't have a loft ladder in the OP so no idea why last 2 PPs are being so pointlessly redundant. 🤦‍♀️

Fair enough to say I should be able to go into the loft. I don’t really understand the needlessly nasty tone, since I am asking whether I’m in the right here. I don’t want to kick up a fuss if I’m in the wrong.

The last poster had it, I don’t have a loft ladder. Willing to accept that I should have checked it myself though. Not so willing to accept that me not having a loft ladder means that I deserved to be out of pocket £400 for a poorly done job- surely that would be the case wether I found out yesterday or 5 weeks ago.
It looks fine from the outside, and I have pictures showing the gap at the bottom now.

You don't need one, I have never owned/lived in a house or known anyone with a house with a loft ladder... they're not really a common thing.

Most people I know climb on furniture (drawers, desk, chair) or punt up the banister (I always hated that though as I know I would fall down the stairs). In my case as I'm disabled and have bad balance so I bought a folding step ladder specifically for the task, it gets used a lot also to change the batteries in the smoke alarm and light bulbs etc...

OP has had since January to buy a ladder and go up and check.

Who on earth expects to never have to go up into their loft and instead pay hundred for a man to come have a look... is this a new category 'the mumsnet damsel'.

Are you having a laugh? I don’t like going in the loft, but calling me a “Mumsnet damsel” is absolutely uncalled for- you know fuck all about me, apart from “doesn’t like going in the loft”. Sorry that this one feature about me upsets you so much.

And for the record, my ceilings are too high to get up on furniture or the bannister. But it is true I don’t like it. It’s also true that I live in this house that I pay the mortgage on alone, without any man’s help, and on the day of the storm had to walk to my “essential worker” role and back. I paid for this repair without anybody’s help either. “Mumsnet damsel”, give over.

Not the point, but your post made me laugh remembering my dad balanced on the corner of the bannister before hoisting himself up into the loft in the style of a gymnast on the parallel bars. If he’d fallen he would have been straight down the stairs - no one questioned it😆

in your position I would have checked the work carried out in January before the worker left, presumably they had a ladder that you could have used. Even more reason to make use of it seeing as you don’t have one ?

I remember a young family member clambering into the loft of his first house; he’d been married 7 weeks. He somehow fell and landed straddled over the banister. Very painful and I’m told very swollen testicles. All was well. Eventually.
Back to OP, I’d definitely be chasing that overcharging and would look at small claims court.

It’s absolutely a fair point I should have checked at the time- like I said this is all new to me, and I naively assumed that the job wouldn’t be done until there weren’t any gaps. I’ve learnt a lesson there.

You could have asked both previous and current workmen to take photos of the window and show you. Then if you can’t get up yourself, you can see. You might even be able to use your own phone on a selfie stick to inspect the loft without needing to climb much.

for any future work always get before and after photos.

You don't need anything special to get in the loft.

A standard stepladder is basic DIY kit, nothing special required but worth getting one. You can then use it to get in the loft (and paint ceilings, change bulbs, etc). Saves having to climb on furniture or peoples shoulders tho.

You are at fault for paying without checking the work. Lesson learnt.

I suspect he knew he could get away with charging you over the odds for boarding the window because he knew demand was high after the storm and you probably mentioned insurance company was paying (instant price double). Maybe he also took advantage of the fact you’re a woman (makes me mad and happens so often).

Has the loft suffered any damage from water ingress because of his poor work? If not, put it down to experience, always get a written quote and always check work before paying. Leave him a bad online review if it makes you feel better and move on.

I live in a 1970's build house with two lofts - one of them contains a water tank - personally I would recommend a set of ladders that give you access to the loft as you never know when you need to access it and check it out. My neighbours had mice running around the loft and in my old family house - squirrels got in! With regards to 'trades' look at the local Council recomendations as they have to follow an agreed process. Anything involving roofs - is an easy place to get ripped off on!

There's more than one kind of ladder. If you don't have a fitted loft ladder, then it makes sense to have moveable steps or a long ladder which let you access your own loft.

Just chalk it down to a learning experience and let it go /you now know for next time

Why hasn’t the insurance company compensated you for the initial cost if they instructed you to get your own repair done? Did you send them the invoice and they have not paid it?

Should there be a next time ask for a photo of the completed job, recently had work done and plumber showed me photos of what needed doing and then job completed.

I think everyone has been stung by a bad tradesmen at some point.
You could pursue it in a small claims court if you wanted to. Or you can chalk it up to experience
Yanbu to be annoyed obviously but it happens - unfortunately.

Obviously you now know to not blindly trust people and look yourself, but that's not really relevant now.

How was the job booked, is there anything in writing or was it over the phone? What does it say on the invoice?

It is absolutely not OK, and you should be angry, but I imagine the likelihood of you being able to take it further depends on if it said anywhere that they would make it watertight. If you don't have anything in writing then I'd just count it an expensive lesson and move on.
The overcharging isn't relevant imo, they quoted you for a job, you agreed and they did it. At this point the quality of the work, ie did they do what they charged you for is the only thing you are likely to get anywhere with imo.
And was there any damage in the loft from the water getting in? If not I don't think you will get very far.

Doesn't matter if you should have checked, you didn't have access so you didn't, he still did a shoddy job and you should be refunded. Keep hounding them and SCC if you don't get anywhere.

Regardless of whether you checked the work, or felt able to check the work, it doesn't affect your statutory right to have the work carried out with reasonable care and skill. The company saying you've left it too late are fobbing you off - the gap they left hasn't suddenly developed, he left it like that at the time.

Approach them in writing and say that, by their own admission, he was brought in to 'make it safe' and he didn't do that. A key element of 'safe' is preventing water ingress (i.e. prevent further damage), and the gap constitutes a failure to carry out the work with the reasonable care and skill required under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. See what they come back with.

If they say 'safe' just means no one can get in or whatever, point out rodents and also section 69 of the same Act - the consumer's interpretation of what constitutes 'safe' prevails over the trader's.

Can you ask the new glazier to provide some comments in writing about what he found? Photos would be great if he took any.

Thanks to everyone who’s taken the time to reply. While I do take the point that I should have checked, I am also not sure that excuses the original shoddy job. I’m also not sure where that ends - speaking hypothetically, what if the damage was somewhere that I could never see?

I have a Ramsey ladder waiting to get fitted now, and I suppose this is a good kick to start going up it. I have a bit of a terror of ladders, particularly since the loft hatch is at the top of the stairs, and am only 5 foot 2 so there’ll be no hitching from bannisters etc.

Those saying I shouldn’t have paid have maybe missed that they had my bank details prior to any work being done. That was part of the agreement of them coming out. Normally I would have gone elsewhere but was obviously panicked by the damage.

I’ll write a email laying out where I think they’ve failed in their job, and a couple of bad reviews, but more in order to register my annoyance than looking for anything. Thank you again all.