Buyers' mortgage declined because of the quirks of our 350 year old house!

[BunnyWilliams]

I'm so frustrated. Our buyers' mortgage (Nationwide) was declined today pending a specialist review. The surveyor came yesterday.

He has cited that the house has 'structural issues' and had based this upon the fact that our couldn't-be-more-solid stone cottage has sloping floors in one bedroom. It's a bloody 1730 cottage for goodness sake!!!! Every house in the country of a certain age has wonky walls and floors! I'm fuming! Now he wants them to get a structural engineers report and goodness knows whether they will, or whether it will agree with this ridiculous assumption.

They have also downvalued the house to 420k (it was valued at 475k and we accepted 448k after a reduction to 450). Our agents agree it's laughable and not even remotely in line with what similar houses have sold for recently. Even Nationwide's own pricing index values it at a minimum of 440!

Is there anything we can do?! I feel completely helpless. We didn't have an issue getting a mortgage at all for this house (4 years ago) and neither did any of the people that came before us. The surveyor came from out of area and clearly doesn't understand the normalcies of a cottage. Every blooming house in our village would be unmortgageable if that were the case. 😤

Your buyers could choose to go with another provider, however if I was your buyer I'd hold tight to the £420k valuation they've returned and play chicken.

You either accept that valuation or put it back on the market (and risk the next buyers provider coming back with the same).

And it's not u mortgageable - its just worth 420k so they'll only approve a mortgage that covers that.

We won't reduce. We'll put it back on the market if the buyers decline to make up the rest.

Our agents are making up a case file to contest it based on local sale prices for houses in our village and the house price index etc.

Every old house has a bit of damp here and there, it's just how you manage it. Some people just don't understand old houses!

And what happens if the next buyers can only get approved for 420k?

Then we'll probably suck it up and stay put. I refuse to lose 30k because some person at Nationwide has decided on a whim that the house is worth far less than even their own house price index indicates without providing any solid evidence for it!!!

Is it likely that a different provider would come to a different view? Would the fact that it’s been valued at 420K by Nationwide be information that’s available to others?

How much was it valued at when you bought it and got mortgage?

This happens where we live. Mundic block test positive and suddenly a third knocked off as its unmortgagable. However from what we've seen of the mundic houses near us if you keep them well maintained they are fine - 30.years after us moving in they look as good as they ever did and in better nick than the new builds built 10 years ago!

But shout it from the rooftops and whilst it sort of defies logic a bit.....they are still unmortgageable.

For your own sanity, don't allow this behaviour to get you angry, just stay calm. This is my philosophy especially relevant post Covid. Everyone in this country now appears to be a cretin or to behave like one. So set your expectations to encounter this behaviour in everyone you deal with and you will never be disappointed when they do. In adopting this approach I'm now never disappointed anymore and very occasionally I'm pleasantly surprised when someone actually does what they say or knows what they are talking about. Sit tight until the right person pays the price you and your agent think the house is worth.

I recall my father recounting what a surveyor told him when he was thinking of buying our childhood home built in the 1540's.. "it's stood for 500 years, it will stand some more". There wasn't a straight floor, wall or window in the house. All the surveyor was looking for was any recent changes. The same is probably true with your house, if nothing has changed recently and it hasn't yet fallen down it probably won't. Just wait for someone who's not going to act like a cretin.

Tbh I'd want to get rid. If the nationwide are saying this why would others be different? On the whole lenders are tightening up criteria and becoming less more risk adverse.

When we bought our house we had to change mortgage providers during the purchase. We bought for less than yours and the difference in the two valuations was £62k, it doesn’t necessarily follow that the same thing would happen with a different mortgage provide. We didn’t change our offer and fortunately the valuation (the lower one was the provider we used) wasn’t a problem as our deposit was large enough.

What are your agents doing???

Pay for your own valuation and see what that says, not a crap bank survey , a proper structural survey , I'm assuming your buyers was an ordinary bog standard survey if its done by the bank.

Your buyer has ZERO motivation to do it , as they have a big stick to beat you that the house is overvalued.

Use your survey to negotiate, if it flags X Y Z, price those with building firms and get talking on price.

Pointless letting the sale go as you'll have all this shit to deal with if you go back on the market and the next buyer runs into the same.

I speak from bitter experience, in our case we spent around 9K on remedial works based on a full structural survey ( that was around a grand).

You offer this price agreed, 448 - (remidial works done) At least that way if the sale goes through, any urgent works / investigations needed are done and dusted.

Most of the work will be sign off the house is sound.

I’d put it back on the market and the next potential buyer ask them to book a valuation with a local surveyor, one that’s used to the older properties. I have an older house the surveyor who did the survey for me also said it’s falling down. Wrong. It’s a good solid house.

We are remortgaging on our current house - no extra borrowing just that our 2 year mortgage is up in few months.
Our broker advised to go with a Nationwide mortgage product. I have now had over about 2 weeks of endless requests for extra info and documents - I have never had to provide work much and I've dealt with numerous mortgages the last one being 2 years ago.
Maybe it's Nationwide!!

Or I suppose could be as PP posted about more stringent lending criteria.
Can see why you're annoyed - hope it works out.

What’s making you move after 4 years OP? And how much profit are you hoping to make? Are they going off your purchasing price when valuing?

As a buyer, I’d be pulling out unfortunately. It’s already a risky time to buy, let alone valuations suggesting they’d be overpaying - it’s a buyers market, they be silly to stump up so much more money based on the valuation.

I think you need to get another local surveyor round for a second opinion.

The irony being that we really need more homes in this country, but simultaneously seem to be making it harder for people to get mortgages on the existing ones.

Op has no control over lender’s criteria. It’s hardly a question of waiting for a “non cretin” to happen along. What an odd post.

Our agent said that our buyers agreed that it's a ridiculous survey and that the valuation isn't accurate. They are totally in love with our house and have enrolled their daughter in the local secondary already (they live over 2 hours away). They want an old house like ours and there isn't currently anything on the market like it, so I feel fairly confident that they're not going to immediately pull out.

I will have a sensible conversation about what we can do to make this work but we aren't prepared to lose 30k.

@BooomShakeTheRoom We'd like a bigger garden. Our son has ADHD and struggles without lots of outdoor space to burn off energy. We adore our house and would happily pick it up and move it if we could.

I find it really surprising that everyone is so willing to accept the opinion of one person, who may well be terrible at their job.

OP do remember that the valuers and surveyors etc are not Nationwdie themselves, they are independent and will take instructions from all the lenders. There is a very good chance that either this buyer or another buyer with a different lender would end up with the same surveyor coming out, hence will say same thing next time too.

You can't account for stupidity so all you can do is wait until some non-cretins to come along. In the hope and knowledge that at some point someone will.

In this case, there is very little that can be done when dealing with stupid people. The purchaser has engaged a survey from someone who clearly isn't worthy of the name of their profession. Depending on the lender, sometimes they are recommended by the bank themselves from a preferred list. The surveyor isn't putting anything on the line, they've seen every imperfection in what is a very old property and has called it out saying an expert needs to review it further so they can't be held to account. I've read these types of surveys and they are surveys in name only, they are of the lowest bar, nothing risked, no judgement expended by the surveyor and not worth the fee. I've had similar surveys in the past as I own a number of properties. I once had a surveyor recommend that I remove a section of wall to inspect the wall ties, that's when I got a 'real' surveyor. Unfortunately, the bank has taken this survey at face value and have withdrawn their offer. So who are the cretins in this case, the potential purchaser for commissioning a surveyor probably on cost, the surveyor who has qualified every imperfection so they are exempt from any liability, the bank who are scared of all risk.

You do realise that large mortgage companies do not just have some random person deciding not to give a mortgage on a whim. They look at all sorts of things and make an educated risk assessment according to their internal rules. Mortgages are a big business, and if companies didn’t do their due diligence then everyones mortgage will rocket in price.
Your buyers could try other mortgage providers who have a different risk attitude and may be lucky. Perhaps you could tell them who your mortgage provider is and maybe they can help.

Presumably they are able to afford the repayments?
Can you furnish your EA with details of your own mortgage provider to pass on, and see if that helps your buyers? As in they're already lending on this property so don't have an issue with sloping floors (which given the date could even be errors in the measurements on building)

Then that would be your choice. You don't really have any control over your buyer's mortgage application. It's up to them to look for another lender. I don't think mortgages are refused on a whim. Maybe there are issues with the house.