Ground Floor Chimney Breast Removed - Options?

[MelodyJ]

Hi all, looking to purchase a property with ground floor chimney breast removed, at least 15 years ago. Unlikely to have building reg/ paperwork

Surveyor can’t confirm whether there’s adequate support, but there’s no visible cracks.

Seller probably won’t want structural engineer in to inspect as that would required lifting floorboard/ drilling a hole in the ceiling.

So just trying to plan ahead and a bit of googling came up with the following options…

1. once completed, appoint a structural engineer in to inspect the area to find out if support is there? Est £600. If not, it will need remediation (more cost)
2. skip the above and look at removing the chimney breast in the bedroom above and ensure the stack is supported. Est. £2000-£3000
3. Rebuild chimney breast downstairs (don’t need the open fire) but not sure of costs..

Do I have other options?

If not, I’m currently leaning towards option 2 to save money on investigation (option 1) which could likely lead back to option 2 as the remediation… but how disruptive is it to remove chimney breast?

Anyone has similar issue before that could offer some insight?

I would not purchase the property without an engineer’s inspection, you say the buyer wouldn’t want an inspection done because of lifted boards and drilling holes in the ceiling, I’d say ‘tough’. You could offer to buy the property pending a positive report and accept the remedial cost caused by the inspection.

Personally, and this is just me, I would be doing option 4 which would be: ‘seller cooperates with further structural inspections to my satisfaction’ or I walk away.

Is the fireplace on top floor still in use?
If not, I would say that's less of a risk. But still, seller should cooperate or straight out remove remediation costs from price.

@Slawit @MrsApplepants yeh that’s one of the options too 😅

@MH0084 the chimney breast in the bedroom above is already blocked off, cap all removed etc.

I will see what the EA/ seller says… thanks all!

Hi OP,

We recently bought a house that didn’t have planning permission for an old conversion.

I won’t bore you with the details, so long story short, we set up a retention rider so everything could still proceed. In your scenario, you could say to the sellers “happy to go ahead as planned, but would want a retention rider for the sum of £5k, to be used within 1 year of completion, to cover the cost of a surveyors report to the property and any remedial work needed”.

if the surveyors report says no issues, then they get the £5k (minus surveyor cost back). If there’s any issues, you can access the funds to make repairs. Anything above £5k, you cover, anything below £5k, the sellers get back.

I found this worked well for us as our sellers were adamant that the planning permission wasn’t an issue, so we said fine you won’t mind this retention rider then as you know you’ll get your money back…!

Unless it's remarkably cheap or your absolute must have house I would insist on the inspection, or at least to see drawings of what was done. It's probably structurally sound but.... If the chimney stack is still there that would be my main worry if it's not fully supported it could come down in a big wind. If in doubt walk away.

I would have thought that the same issues would come up with every buyer and the Estate Agent should make that clear to them.

Did the vendor remove the Chimney Breast in which case its their own fault or was it a previous owner?

I imagine your surveyor would be very cautious about it

How big is the chimney breast? Depth and width? How big is the chimney? Is it shared with a neighbor?
The chimney may need to be supported on a steel, that may need scaffolding to get it in the roof. That said, it might be suitable for a gallows bracket. If it’s your own chimney, best to take the whole thing down.
All that said, if it was done 15 years ago, it’s unlikely to suddenly collapse.
If h th get chimney is shared with the neighbor, have they had the chimney breasts removed?

@SEL0ndon that’s really helpful thank you! Would look into that as it covers both parties!!!

@custardpyjamas it is about 5-10% below market value so you can argue it has been factored in to the price. Hence it’s not an absolute show stopper for us.

@JohnofWessex Unfortunately the EA didn’t mention anything. The current owner didn’t do any work to the property so it was done by previous owner. I have asked if they have any paperwork from when they purchase the property as I would expect this would’ve come up back in 2010s.

@HellsBalls haven’t got the measurement unfortunately. It is a semi so the stack is shared with neighbours - they still have all four of their chimney (based on all 4 caps are still opened). If I only remove the breast from the 1st floor bedroom, keep the stack, can the steel/ rsj go through the house, and to be put up to the ceiling through the bedroom?

You might want to put the beam in the roof directly under the remaining chimney, out of the way of the bedroom ceiling. You may need calculations and method of work done by a structural engineer. So it's safe and insured during construction.