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Restrictive covenants

44 replies

Shwish · 14/11/2024 13:35

Anyone else find it insane that a restrictive covenant that was put in place 100 years (or more!) ago could still be legal when it's on a private property? For example the house we're in the process of buying says we're not allowed to erect a tent. I assume this is so that nobody ends up living in the garden but TECHNICALLY I'd be breaking the covenant if I stuck a tent out there over a weekend in the summer to dry it out after camping or let my kids have a sleepover. Because some dude said so 100 years ago. Mental.

OP posts:
NetballHoop · 14/11/2024 16:26

"get scrutinised by conveyancers whenever you sell"

Well they have to justify their fees somehow.

Another2Cats · 14/11/2024 16:28

Doris86 · 14/11/2024 16:24

I’m not allowed to keep pigs. Seems bizarre it was felt necessary to put such a covenant in place, considering the house is relatively modern - late 70s build.

I’m also not allowed a TV aerial on the exterior of the house. However I do have one, as do all the neighbours, and no one has got in trouble for it yet.

These covenants tend to become irrelevant over time, but yet they stay in place and get scrutinised by conveyancers whenever you sell.

"I’m not allowed to keep pigs...the house is relatively modern - late 70s build."

They'd obviously been watching the BBC series "The Good Life" and didn't want a real life version of that.

(For context, "The Good Life" was a BBC series that ran from 1975-1978 about a couple who went self sufficient and kept pigs - as well as chickens etc - in their back garden)

Doris86 · 14/11/2024 16:35

Another2Cats · 14/11/2024 16:28

"I’m not allowed to keep pigs...the house is relatively modern - late 70s build."

They'd obviously been watching the BBC series "The Good Life" and didn't want a real life version of that.

(For context, "The Good Life" was a BBC series that ran from 1975-1978 about a couple who went self sufficient and kept pigs - as well as chickens etc - in their back garden)

Well actually I’m not allowed chickens either. So maybe you are right!

Gekko21 · 14/11/2024 16:37

Seems to me that the main beneficiaries of these convenants are insurance companies that sell indemnity insurance.

MrsNotquiteAverage · 14/11/2024 16:40

In our case and in others the covenant was written into the first sale deeds, no one later has or wants to assume the authority of removing it.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 14/11/2024 16:41

DPs aren't allowed to keep cows or sell milk from their second floor flat with no garden.

I'm not allowed to have any fences, hedges, sheds or even a porch to the front of the house. In theory that one is enforceable by anyone who lives in a house that was bought from the developer before the one I live in was bought, but I've also been told that if there's widespread breaking of the covenant by neighbours then it becomes unenforceable. No idea if that's true.

Doris86 · 14/11/2024 16:43

I think a lot of these covenants are put in place by developers, who want to keep the estate looking nice whilst they are still trying to sell other houses in the area.

Once the developers have moved on, no one really cares about them any more.

Ponderingwindow · 14/11/2024 16:46

I quite like ours. It keeps the area quiet and tidy. Most of the neighbor disputes you read about on here could be solved by a good covenant.

I only chafe at having to follow the rules occasionally.

Another2Cats · 14/11/2024 16:58

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 14/11/2024 16:41

DPs aren't allowed to keep cows or sell milk from their second floor flat with no garden.

I'm not allowed to have any fences, hedges, sheds or even a porch to the front of the house. In theory that one is enforceable by anyone who lives in a house that was bought from the developer before the one I live in was bought, but I've also been told that if there's widespread breaking of the covenant by neighbours then it becomes unenforceable. No idea if that's true.

"In theory that one is enforceable by anyone who lives in a house that was bought from the developer before the one I live in was bought"

I believe it's the other way round. Anyone who lives in a house that was bought from the developer after the one you live in was bought.

"I've also been told that if there's widespread breaking of the covenant by neighbours then it becomes unenforceable."

Yes.

h7htj392 · 14/11/2024 16:59

I'm not allowed livestock. I live in a city centre flat, so it's probably for the best. 😁

GasPanic · 14/11/2024 17:09

Doris86 · 14/11/2024 16:24

I’m not allowed to keep pigs. Seems bizarre it was felt necessary to put such a covenant in place, considering the house is relatively modern - late 70s build.

I’m also not allowed a TV aerial on the exterior of the house. However I do have one, as do all the neighbours, and no one has got in trouble for it yet.

These covenants tend to become irrelevant over time, but yet they stay in place and get scrutinised by conveyancers whenever you sell.

Thing is every now and then there is a covenant that really affects the value of the house. If the purchaser was not made aware of it by the conveyancer then they could have a case against them.

So informing purchasers of covanents becomes part of the list of stuff conveyancers have to do as part of their box ticking exercises.

Like making sure the purchaser confirms that they are aware of the plot boundaries and the plot on the title matches the one they think they are buying.

Reugny · 14/11/2024 17:11

The more modern ones I've been told about for both houses and flats are having business "visitors" and where you can put your washing e.g. not at the front of your house.

One of my friends in a small development just said "No" to all of them so their house doesn't have covenants. Though they enforce the business visitors one themselves as they don't want to pay for insurance.

buffyspikefaithangel · 14/11/2024 17:30

Mine has a book full but it's an apartment so the majority of them have to be followed annoyingly

Have to clean the inside of the windows once a month
The apartment must be decorated in the approved colours in the decorating years (helpfully it doesn't tell you the approved colours)
Can't bang a rug outside
No washing on view, including in my garden so that rules out hanging washing outside
No immoral behaviour Grin

I could go on

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 14/11/2024 19:04

Another2Cats · 14/11/2024 16:58

"In theory that one is enforceable by anyone who lives in a house that was bought from the developer before the one I live in was bought"

I believe it's the other way round. Anyone who lives in a house that was bought from the developer after the one you live in was bought.

"I've also been told that if there's widespread breaking of the covenant by neighbours then it becomes unenforceable."

Yes.

Oh, really?! That's very interesting, as my house was the last one to be built!!

I must have completely misunderstood the conveyancer when she explained it. (there was lots of 'to the party of the first part, with the burden of the blah, benefiting from the wotsit')

Another2Cats · 14/11/2024 20:16

GasPanic · 14/11/2024 17:09

Thing is every now and then there is a covenant that really affects the value of the house. If the purchaser was not made aware of it by the conveyancer then they could have a case against them.

So informing purchasers of covanents becomes part of the list of stuff conveyancers have to do as part of their box ticking exercises.

Like making sure the purchaser confirms that they are aware of the plot boundaries and the plot on the title matches the one they think they are buying.

"Like making sure the purchaser confirms that they are aware of the plot bundaries and the plot on the title matches the one they think they are buying."

There was a whole big case on this reported just recently. It ended up going to the Court of Appeal over a bit of land that was about 4 metres wide.

All because the purchaser didn't notice that the boundary on the title plan didn't match up with reality on the ground. This from The Times, with a share token

https://www.thetimes.com/article/f3a6f309-b43f-4dc6-8289-d9f7172845cc?shareToken=2970197621aa94d17bc528f46dbdb45b

Neighbours run up £300,000 bill in fight over garden brook

After a trial and two appeals, the dispute over a narrow stream in Leicestershire has been settled in favour of ‘squatters’ rights’

A village brook can create the quintessential image of Englishness, but in Leicestershire it has been the focus of a £300,000 legal row between a potter and his neighbours.

Court of Appeal judges heard that David Wright requires “slow, quiet, rhythmic … time for contemplation” to create ceramics using a Japanese-influenced technique in his garden studio in the village of Thrussington.

The potter complained that his peace was shattered in 2020 when Dee Narga, an NHS administrator and part-time painter, paid £265,000 for a former piggery behind his cottage home — known as Brook Barn — and obtained planning permission to convert it into a large house.

Narga claimed that a 1.2-metre-wide brook that runs between the two properties was part of her land — but Wright countered that the waterway was in his garden and that his children had paddled in it.

Nonetheless, Narga tore down an existing fence on her side of the water and erected a new barrier along the other bank on ground that Wright and his wife said formed part of their garden.

The couple also argued that Narga had impinged on the property of their neighbours, Amanda Clapham, a physiotherapist, and her husband, Tony.

Narga’s actions prompted “heated discussions” between the neighbours and ultimately a “bitter” court dispute over ownership of the stream.

Three appeal judges — Lord Justice Peter Jackson, Lord Justice Newey and Lord Justice Nugee — have now come down on the side of the Wrights and Claphams, ruling that their “peaceful” adverse possession of the brook and land on both its banks trumped Narga’s “mere paper” entitlement.

In his lead judgment, Jackson criticised the £300,000 in legal costs incurred in the dispute over the tiny waterway, saying that litigation could have been avoided had Narga talked to her neighbours before buying Brook Barn.

During the course of a trial and two appeals, judges heard that Thrussington — a small village that originated as a Viking settlement and is mentioned in the Domesday Book — sits on the western side of the River Wreake, between Leicester and Melton Mowbray.

The brook at the centre of the legal battle rises near the ancient medieval ruins of Thrussington Grange monastery and passes between the backs of the litigants’ gardens before emptying into the River Wreake.

Various court hearings were told that Narga bought Brook Barn in 2020 and that the Wrights and the Claphams had treated the brook and both its banks as part of their gardens “for decades”.

Narga was found to be the owner of the stream in two previous court rulings, despite a judge finding that her neighbours had established “squatters’ rights” over the brook and the unclaimed land immediately north and south of it.

However that judge also ruled that as the two couples had not registered their adverse possession of the land and their use of it was not “obvious,” their claims were superseded by Narga’s once her property was registered.

However, the Court of Appeal overturned that ruling, with Nugee in his ruling finding that the brook and its banks had been effectively removed from the title of Brook Barn by the two couples establishing squatters’ rights long before its title was first registered in 2003.

“The upshot,” said the judge, was that Narga “has no registered title to the disputed land”. The judge added: “She has no other claim to it and there is therefore nothing to displace the possessory title that the Wrights and the Claphams had acquired by 2003, and still have today, to the disputed land.”

The costs each side will have to pay for the dispute will be decided at another hearing at a later date.

Neighbours run up £300,000 bill in fight over garden brook

After a trial and two appeals, the dispute over a narrow stream in Leicestershire has been settled in favour of ‘squatters’ rights’

https://www.thetimes.com/article/f3a6f309-b43f-4dc6-8289-d9f7172845cc?shareToken=2970197621aa94d17bc528f46dbdb45b

whitebutterfly12 · 15/11/2024 00:05

Shwish · 14/11/2024 14:32

No tannery? Well that'd be a deal breaker for me. No tannery, no purchase.
Seriously though why on earth would you even need to have that on the deeds? Might as well say no diamond mining or no morris dancing

We can’t have a brothel at the end of our garden . Unfortunately 😂

Shwish · 15/11/2024 07:06

Only at the end of the garden, though? So in the house will be fine? That's a relief.

OP posts:
ElinoristhenewEnid · 15/11/2024 07:35

On the estate where I live we have a shopping parade In the land deeds the co-operative society are banned from having a shop there.

GreenTeaLikesMe · 15/11/2024 07:41

My parents have one saying they are not allowed to operate a tannery from their premises.

Fortunately, I think this is unlikely anyway.

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