Negotiating house price after survey

[amandaleeds]

So I had my offer accepted for a house that I knew needed a new kitchen and bathroom, and it appeared that it needed all new windows and doors (quoted £9k).
However the survey has flagged up quite a lot of concerns and I'm not sure how to go about negotiating the price.
The surveyor valued it 5k below my offer but that doesn't bother me as it's not a huge difference in the grand scheme.

I really didn't want a project but the location really works for me and I'm so fed up looking for a property now. I'm keen to work with the sellers to proceed, but what concerns me is the sellers won't really be making much profit after buying it 6 years ago to let out. However it's clear these issues would have already been there and it doesn't seem to have been maintained.

It has failed cavity wall insulation causing damp - potential cost of removing it and addressing any structural damage is 8k.

It has damaged asbestos ceiling causing a break in the fire protection from the room upstairs. Cost of removing 4k plus the cost of new ceiling (noine has suggested fixing it).

It has the original wiring which I was advised to replace. Cost 5k. There's no safety certificate so I need to get this checked out.

It's in a high radon gas area (need to get it measured in the house) which worst case scenario is £3k to address.

The radiators are apparently very old and inefficient and ideally should be replaced plus no thermostatic valves. Waiting for a quote, but this isn't really classed as 'urgent' so long as I can get the agent to show me the heating works (been empty 18 months).

The loft insulation is a dreadful state and doesn't meet current building regs. Cost £1k to sort.

It has structural damage on the wall from the damp. Cost £600

It needs repointing. Cost £800

It needs the roof trusses securing to gable wall ends. Cost £300. Not a lot, but is structural issue.

What would your advice be? Do I ask them to address some of these things (i.e. structural/damp stuff) or ask for price reduction? It feels like it needs a good £15k knocking off but that's 5% of the price.

Yes I could do that myself. The current stuff is 100mm and a mess, but the CWI company said they could do it for £1k whilst they're in the loft removing the wall insulation.

@amandaleeds Streets have ceiling prices though. You are way below in some of your costs. Plus if you don’t increase radiator size, and do everything, selling on won’t be easy either. You could easily outspend the value after renovation.

Also, who cares about what profit the vendors are, or are not making? Had they looked after the house, it would be worth more. Not having rafters secured is not acceptable. Putting up with damp so it causes structural issues is not acceptable. What are the structural issues? I’d never buy this without a structural engineer report. Falling asbestos? And people lived in this? Not acceptable either. Windows in a mess? Doors? Why? What’s happened to them? I would not give a fig about profit for the vendor because I think they have been dreadful landlords. Neither would I want to stay in this as an Airbnb! It, frankly, sounds horrible if it’s only partially renovated.

To sum up, this house needs money spent. You won’t know how much until you get a far more detailed survey. It’s probably not going to make you a profit as house prices seem static where you are. I think the idea of it is tempting but the vendors have let this house deteriorate whilst getting rental income. As for an extension for £15,000? What planet are you on?

This house must have been very poorly built if it's only 35 years old and needs so much work - in your position I would pull out and wait until something suitable comes on the market, even if it means renting for another year or so..

I was looking at lean to type extensions, which were coming in well below 15k online but in reality I think a proper extension would be better.

I agree the lack of profit is down to lack of maintenance. The wooden doors don't offer much insulation and are a bit draughty but technically would be fine. Many of the windows have gaps and are twisted so definitely need replacing.

I have a level 2 homebuyer survey despite initially asking for level 3 (they said it wouldn't be worth it for a house that young and would only do it if 100 years old etc).

So how would I get a full structural survey? My partner is a structural engineer and he couldn't see anything too concerning on the viewing but wanted me to get the cavity wall insulation checked out and couldn't understand what would be causing cracks/sagging in ceiling.

Do you really want to spend more money on this house @amandaleeds ? A level 3 survey is going to find yet more problems and there are already a scary number of them. By the time you spend thousands of pounds fixing this house you could have bought something in better condition and spared yourself the grief.

Are you sure you can't compromise on something else to find more housing options? Like widen your search area or something. Or increase your budget since you seem to have the money for loads of remedial work in this house.

@amandaleeds Your DP is MIStructE but has no idea what’s causing cracks and sagging? Oh dear. My DH is FIStructE and definitely would have some idea. Certainly get a surveyor who will survey the house. Any surveyor you employ should be asked to look at all these issues. Twisted windows?? How on earth does this happen? I’m beginning to wonder if there are structural issues here. Roof ties failing and what is the structural damage exactly? What can be seen? Is there a leaking pipe causing damp? Is there heave? How can your DP have no idea? These affects don’t happen to 35 year old houses. Plus no one is ever going to repair asbestos!

A lean to? That’s yet another recipe for problems.

I'm keen to work with the sellers to proceed, but what concerns me is the sellers won't really be making much profit after buying it 6 years ago to let out. However it's clear these issues would have already been there and it doesn't seem to have been maintained.

So its a rental?

6 years of renting would easily give him £72,000 (possibly more) depending on rent and area. Landlords aren't poor souls making huge losses, if they don't maintenance the house and it loses value thats on them. They still profit in that time.

It has the original wiring which I was advised to replace. Cost 5k. There's no safety certificate so I need to get this checked out.

Legally it HAS to have its electric and gas certificates if its a rental. It has to be done before renting starts and updated every 10 years for Electrics (every year for gas). Our landlord is shite but a rewire is about all hes done maintenance wise because thats one of the big ones they really can't wrangle out of doing.

I looked at what more money would get me but so far nothing in a suitable location that offers the same potential. My original budget was below this but wasn't getting anywhere. I've looked on rightmove again but nothing in the past month.

Yes I thought to has to be checked? The boiler was serviced last year (waiting for paperwork) so I assume it would have gas safety check done. The surveyor said the electric box had a service sticker on to say it was checked in 2021 and due 2026 but the vendors said they didn't have any paperwork...

I was thinking they would have been paying a mortgage, but yes probably still made a profit from rental income.

I've spoken to a neighbour and he thinks the house is older then 1989, maybe late 70s early 80s, but still not 'old'..

The trusses are apparently not properly braced or attached to gable end walls (from level 2 survey).

I thought the survey was a structural survey but it sounds like not.

My DP said the wall cracking and lintel corrosion is due to damp cavity. He said a sagging ceiling can only be damp from roof, so might have had a leak previously.

Maybe I should get someone in the loft to take a proper look... the neighbour I spoke to is a builder so I can ask him about it and the extent of all the work.

I sense that you are getting really desperate to buy a home of your own which is understandable. That doesn't mean that you should feel forced to buy this house, which clearly hasn't been properly cared for and maintained by the current owner. If you are really determined to continue with this purchase, at least get a fully structural survey done. Although, perhaps you should also try to gauge how receptive the owner will be to renegotiating prior to spending more money. He has had one sale fall through due to a survey already. I suspect the estate agent knows more about this than they are letting on.

Twisted windows
Sagging ceilings
Unfixed trusses and rafters
Needing repointing
Failed CW insulation
Cracked walls.

OP, this house was very badly built. There is no point re-doing bathroom and kitchens or adding roof insulation when the bones of the house are rotten to the core. It makes me wonder what the foundations are like.

Walk away. It would probably be cheaper to knock down and rebuild a new one.

How do you know the lintel is corroded? They are fully plastered internally, and for the most part obscured by brickwork externally. They also 99% of the time fitted with a cavity tray which protects them from damp. What is the crack and where does it go to/from?
How old is the boiler? Is this house a one off or an estate house? The bracing and attaching the trusses is half a days job, but ceilings shouldn’t sag. I presume bedroom ceilings? Did you notice if they had been repaired? If the roof is not braced then constant tiny movements might work the ceiling tacks lose.

It's part of an estate.

Yes, we think the unsecure trusses could be the cause of some other issues.

The survey report said a steel lintel above a window had corroded, causing the horizontal crack in the external brickwork.

I saw a thin crack in a ceiling buy thought nothing of it. The survey said there was some distortion of the landing ceiling, which could relate go a leak in loft water tanks, but wasn't of concern, just aesthetics. Surveyor was happy with ceilings apart from asbestos one in garage.

The estate agent seemed shocked when I highlighted the survey had flagged a few things. They stated the seller had recently completed several repairs after the original sale fell through, including replacing a ceiling in a bedroom.

The cavity wall company noticed a few external areas had been repointed.

I thought the point of a level 2 survey is for the professional to give their educated opinion as to if the house is worth buying. Their general consensus seemed to be that it just needed the issues addressing. 🤔

Sounds like a nightmare. It seems like you need to go back and take a lot of money off to make it worth buying. It sounds really badly managed. No new windows since 1989!?!
I wouldn’t worry about what they paid. That’s their problem.

@amandaleeds A survey gives you a general picture of the condition of the house. It cannot tell you if it’s worth buying. You have to work this out based on house values and the cost of repairs. This house sounds older. Plus a boiler service and gas safety check are not the same thing. The 18 months between a tenant and now mean any gas check has run out. The electric one would be in force. The fugues quoted for rent might not be profit!

My old warm air boiler service used to come with a safety check as standard.

Would it be unreasonable for me to ask them to get it serviced again, gas safety certificate, and an electrics safety certificate?

Gas boiler should be within 12 months

Sounds like 100k renovation and not a 'room at a time' type of house. Rewire is huge (and then there's the making good or plastering afterwards).
For 'only' 50k more you could buy something in good order and a bit bigger nearby?
This house is over priced for the work needing doing.

Just keep waiting and looking.

No. The point of a survey is to catalogue all areas of concern. It's up to you to reach a conclusion as to whether it's worth it. All houses can be "mended" but that doesn't mean it will be worth it financially.

Everytime you post, you mention another issue. If these are the obvious problems then I dread to think what is hidden.

I wish you the best of luck with it.

@amandaleeds The landlords’ gas safety cert did not apply to you unless you rented out your flat. If you didn’t, you didn’t pay for one I assume. Obviously a service should ensure your appliance is safe but it’s not the same thing.

That house has a lot of issues and I really don’t think the ballpark figures you have for remedial work are correct. They seem very low.

I would rent and wait for a better home to come onto the market.

At the very least I'd expect the seller to come down to the value that the surveyor put on it, that has happened in some of my house buys/sales.