Is it madness not to get a survey on a listed property

[Spoookyseason]

Buying a flat above a shop in a listed building. Had survey for mortgage and they were happy to lend on property. I dont think a level 2 survey will tell us anything exept the obvious and level 3 seems to be for big refurbished projects.

There are a lot of obvious issues, the windows are absolutely knackered for example and the roof had a slipped slate, but it was refurbished around 2014. It's leasehold so building work I think would be responsibility of the leaseholder and I know the fees have fluctuated in the past for repair work.

Tbh I don't think anything is going put me off this flat, and there is practically no property suitable in the area to rent or buy in budget anyway. I can't think its worth paying someone nearly a grand to look round 3 rooms, but am I being completely ridiculous?

yes, always get a survey. this is the biggest investment you'll probably ever make.

Read all the SPAB literature and join the Facebook group Your Old House UK - Repair and Conservation. Unfortunately quite a few surveyors are not used to old buildings and their advice may not be helpful. But if you buy this you need to be informed about how listing status affects what you can do. And learn about how old buildings were constructed and how to make them work in this modern age. Good luck. (SPAB = Society for Protection of Ancient Buildings).

Sorry, but I remember clearly reading the surveyor blurb about which survey to choose. L3 is recommended on pre around 1920, properties with significant internal alterations or extensions AND listed buildings.

Problems with listed buildings cost three times more to repair than standard buildings. So unless you have a vast cash reserve I think you ought to bite the bullet and pay out for it.

Yes, pay the £1k and demand to see the last two years of communal repair charges.
Look up the listed building status online. Really do your desk research.
When the seller and their agent sees you being as thorough and knowledgeable you will be in a stronger negotiating position. Good luck.

Yes, all this.

Ideally, you need a survey by a properly qualified/experienced heritage surveyor.

"Refurbished" sounds a bit worrying. Make sure you check LBC has been given for all relevant works and also that they've been done in historically appropriate materials/that you are prepared to reinstate/restore to original materials.

If you're buying it you'll be the leaseholder. The freeholder's responsibility is to arrange repairs but it'll be leaseholders who pay for them. Definitely get a L3 survey, your mortgage lender's 'survey' isn't really a survey at all, and if you're spending a lot of money you need to know if there are things that you haven't been able to spot. And listed buildings are always more expensive. It doesn't matter that you'll be buying it anyway, you need to have some sense of what's coming your way in the future.

Just a bit of context. Currently own 1860s Victorian building. Paid for survey (bespoke but RICS surveyor and at the time cost £900). Waste of time. He missed very significant stuff (VERY significant) and instead we got the usual 'this may be a problem ... Ask an expert' on guff about things where there is no problem. TBF we had surveys on last two properties (early Georgian - lived there for 30 years, no real problems even though it was 300 years old and not well cared for. First property was Edwardian).

We have learned a lot about heritage buildings and their upkeep. Beware modern insulation and damp proof injections added to old buildings. And ventilate. They need to breathe. Research.

Not madness, certifiable lunacy.

Read what @Retiredfromthere said and then read it again.

3 years service charge accounts is standard @Mum5net .

I would want a thorough survey. You need to know what might prevent you being able to sell in future.

Thank you, some very useful advice! I've looked up a local heritage surveyor to contact but their website is full of beautiful houses and I'm worried they will just laugh at me and my little flat, even if the building is from the 15th century!

They definitely won't!

Phone them and describe the situation of the flat. If they are local they may even know the shopping parade in question and will certainly deal with small properties as well as large.

They may also be able to give you advice and likely costs in your region for repairs/replacements of fixtures such as windows and the names of specialist builders for the work to ensure compliance with the listing.

They won’t laugh at your money, I promise you.

Always get a survey! We got a L3 one and our house is only 1950s built. It did raise a few things we hadn't considered and ended up haggling a few k off our initial offer because of work needed

It might not bring anything up that will put you off but at least will give you a list of jobs that need doing and in what priority- and possibly save you buying a property with dry rot or serious damp issues for example

A survey from your average surveyor won't be worth much on a listed building. They simply don't have the knowledge.

You seem to be fairly open to the fact that listed buildings need more work and funds etc so unless it's physically falling down I personally don't see the point.

Most have some damp problems, and surveyor will.likey suggest a damp proof course which is a huge mistake on an.old property. Mostly they just need airing, that's how they were designed.

I've lived in period properties all my life and with the exception of a mouldy thatch twenty years back I've never had an issue and the last two listed cottages I've owned I didn't have surveys on. I went in fully prepared to do work of needed, and nothing would out me off buying as they were both perfect for my situation at the time.

However, do what you feel comfortable with.

This is pretty much my reasoning, but I think we are in a minority on this thread! I feel like I'm doing that annoying MN thing of ignoring the advice I don't want to hear😂

I spent some time going through planning applications on the council website. There's a really detailed (and fascinating) heritage report done in 2014, I guess before the latest refurb was done, and various permissions for things like changes to the shop fronts etc. So hopefully work has been done to an approved standard for a listed building.
I've no intention of doing any work other than necessary upkeep. Happy to live in it exactly as it is

I would avoid a leasehold listed building it sounds like a money pit (and I own a listed house!)

Thank you, I was wondering if it would be worth just ringing and explaining the situation

You could also ring the council and ask to speak to the conservation officer to see if the previous work was given listed building consent.

Most MNs won't be buying a listed property so to the vast majority it will seem like maddness! BUT and although at first it may seem counter intuitive to not get a survey, it's expected that a 300 year old house/building will need a little work. So why pay a non specialist to tell you that? Post war houses were not built to the same standard to do sometimes through up the odd fault.
The real question is, would you still buy if it needed work? You've already said the windows need replacing (not a surprise and if you do them gradually doesn't need to break the bank) so you seem well.aware of its current faults.

It's been standing for 300 years, I'm pretty sure it will be OK for another 20 :)

Good luck!

I sort of know what you mean but I love it😭 and it's going to save me £500 a month compared to my current rent

@Spoookyseason not wanting to do work to remodel is a plus. The listed status will (and should) limit what you can do. It will be interesting but expect to not be well insulated. You will need woollens!

Avoid buying of you may need to sell in a hurry. Being listed and leasehold make selling more difficult. Harness the knowledge of other owners of you can. They may be able to recommend suitable craftspeople when you need them. They may be able to steer you away from wrong uns too.

As I said, I have a listed house and whilst it can be a pain in the arse, it’s absolutely beautiful, inside and outside.

I also used to have a leasehold flat (1970s build, solid as a rock) all leaseholders got a bill for £10k for external works, we duly paid, (on top of the usual monthly management charge) the quality of the works was poor but the freeholder decided to put it out for retender rather than get the company they had already paid back to sort their work out.

Having a listed property but without full control of the cost of repairs would be a nightmare.

Is it full leasehold or do you have a share of the freehold?