Why is it so hard to find tradesmen

[loopyluloopy]

Literally that.

Need work done and worried I will be scammed.

How do I find decent trades people who can do work in my area without getting reviews from people I know?

I've tried check-a-trade (my dad was not happy about this) he thinks I will be scammed.

Its a very unpleasant minefield. I've found checkatrade completely useless. I've had some good and bad experiences with local recommendations.

I probably find Google Reviews the most helpful if they have been written by accounts with lots of other reviews and there are lots of very specific positives within them. I've taken to doing the same myself when we have a positive experience. Not perfect obviously, but you can often tell when someone has genuinely gone out of their way to report in a great tradesperson.

The absence of negative reviews is unfortunately not particularly helpful as we've had more than one tradesperson round that has turned out to be pretty nasty & the combination of that & them knowing where you live usually isn't worth the hassle.

For more technical work like roofing we had luck researching the "right way" of doing things and then trying to eek out the cowboys with some more technical questions from an apparent place of ignorance. I'm sure they all see straight though it, but the dodgy ones can't stand being questioned like this but the good ones are usually happy to provide a bit of detail.

In retrospect all of our bad experiences have had some sort of red flag about their behaviour when quoting / website / reviews but we've ignored them because we were either naiive or knowingly took the risk because they were cheaper.

You can't mitigate all your risk but can certainly reduce it a bit.

@MugPlate we have our business on Checkatrade and I think they've changed their format a lot recently. They did used to ask us about a negative review and give us the opportunity to explain before posting it. Now they don't even tell us if we have had one and we have a few lines in which we can post a response. We actually had to threaten legal action to get one removed as the customer had posted a review which we proved was dishonest but it was left on our page for months. @Whoknows101 Google can be a problem as the reviews are not moderated and posters can be a bit economical with the truth, but the good point is that at least businesses can have a right of reply and provide a comprehensive response.

The review system is a good idea as I do check out businesses myself but there is a real issue with people threatening poor reviews if you say no to them ie when their warranty has been expired by over a year but they still want free of charge repairs, or they have quite clearly broken something but claim it's been like it since installation 3 years ago but they've just got around to calling us or the person that complained we didn't answer the phone at 3am (we are not the sort of business where you would experience an emergency at 3am)

Please bear in mind that as much as there definitely are bad tradesman there are some awful customers when reading reviews

The main reason is to do with the education system. Schools never encourage construction trades as valuable careers. They are desperate to feed kids into the uni pathway if possible. So anyone with vaguely acceptable GCSE predictions will not be guided down that pathway. I speak from extensive work among colleges, unis, employers, young apprentices.
From a careers pov schools do not think construction should be for the brightest and the best. Even the professional side like surveying are not promoted careers wise enough to teens.

It's ridiculous isn't it. In Scandinavian countries for example, careers in the trades are held in extremely high regard. There are excellent tradespeople out there but you have to pay decent money for their graft and expertise, otherwise you'll have every Tom, Dick and Harry messing you about.

I'd suggest looking on Yell.com (have never had a bad experience finding someone on there). Possibly because it's a legacy of the old yellow pages and you'll find some established businesses / older tradespeople who have been around for years but are very reliable.

@bellamountain yeah. It's ridiculous. They've relied so heavily on EU workers to fill the gaps for decades, then Brexit. Now no builders. And schools/ colleges are not acknowledging their part in helping fill that skill gap with decent passionate youngsters.
Employers are at their wits end trying to get even decent labourers!
The older tradesmen are literally dying out, and their children/ grandkids don't want to go into trades as it's seen as unattractive in the world of education etc.
So if tradies families don't even want to get into the business then what hope do they have of recruiting from a pool of people with no contact with the industry?

I go with my gut instinct. If I request a quote and they respond quickly, view the job quickly and give a timely quote within 48 hours then it's a good start.
Then I go on how they handle the discussion when measuring up for the quote.

If it's all 'oh I dunno, could be worse before it gets better' claptrap, it's a no from me.
If they are 'ah yes, I will need to do this, that, and my work is guaranteed for at least 2/3/5/10 years', then I'm happier. I always read reviews and choose a company with a very clear and detailed website.
I prefer a written or emailed quote on headed paper too. I want to know their registered company address and VAT reg number before I agree to any work.
If anyone can't supply these things I wouldn't use them.

I've had my share of cowboys and learnt from it.

Trading standards approved contractors

When we moved we were recommended to use this website to find trades. Haven’t seen it advertised but the contractors are approved by trading standards, we’ve never been let down.

I use Facebook. I either put my own post up on our local page or I do a search, as people are always asking for recommendations. Then I check out the ones who are mentioned frequently and go full on detective, as often it's family members of the tradesperson who are recommending them, so want to check they're unconnected socially.

It's all a pain in the arse but worth it when you find decent ones!

Don’t trust google reviews! We were ripped off by thousands yet the Google reviews page for this ‘business’ is so good you would let them look after your newborn child nevermind do your tiling.

It's the same across the EU, there's a desperate shortage of trades and those that are good get very good money.

It can't be blamed entirely on the education system. Small trades businesses have not been taking on apprentices in anything like the numbers needed. The older generation has hung on to the work and not supported a following generation to take it on from them. My local FB group has dozens of posts now that term is starting from parents desperate to find an employer to take on their child as an apprentice. They have the college place already. The understaffing/ undertraining problem building in the motor trade is even worse than the building trades.

Further Education has been underinvested in for years. The pay of college lecturers and instructors is appalling vs. the trades they are instructing young people in, they do not get the same rises and benefits that school teachers get and are on lower pay scales from the start. And as for criticising careers guidance... the pay rates for careers staff in schools and colleges are even lower, and usually term time only.

I’d second local FB pages. I search previous requests, then cross-check with ‘do not use’ posts in the same group. IME, I personally don’t trust anyone advertising their services on FB… the whole ‘ta-dah recent fence installation’ type posts..anyone busy enough doesn’t need to do that. It’s also highly possible that they’ve taken someone else’s work and touting it as their own.

Once you’ve found a reputable electrician, they normally know a great plumber/tiler/plasterer etc so don’t be afraid to ask.

Always agree a price for the job not a day rate unless you are familiar with their work rate. I’ve got some lovely contractors I use but bloody hell they can chat for England…

Agree upon who is supplying the materials. It’s cheaper if you do (especially if you have an account), but do ask which brands they want to work with. No point buying el cheapo tiling adhesive if they only use Mapei etc.

christ knows! the last 4 I have had have done a terrible terrible job, left a mess, over charged me and been frigging weird/intimidating to have in the house. I had a quote for another job and the guy was drunk. I am doing stuff myself now

"kept asking for payment the second he finished" isn't necessarily a sign of a poor tradespeople. If payment is due upon completion, pay upon completion . Tesco ask for payment the second you finish the checkout. How is a trade any different ? They have cash flow to manage, like we all do. A tradesperson doesn't want to spend time on credit control chasing customers for money .

Word of mouth is normally the best way. Ask your neighbours or down the pub.

Neighbours, the other parents at school gate or on the WhatsApp group. When we'd just relocated and were planning to do a big renovation I chatted to other parents at parties about recommendations.

Ours was a big project so we paid the builder extra (15%) and he managed all the trades. It made it more expensive but he sorted out timelines and ensured the work was done to standard. And only used people he knew could be trusted. We then noted down details so if something small comes up in the future we'd get the same eg plumber again.

If any neighbouring houses are having work done you could approach them to ask? They might not want to talk (renovation etc is stressful) but they might also be able to recommend. Or not. It turned out our builder had already worked on most of the neighbours' houses!

The one we went with we had to wait several months for work to start because he was in demand.

We had a loft conversion 3 years ago and since then, we have used the same trades people for the other rooms as and when we got to them. I know they say we should have 3 quotes of every job we get done but now we know these people's work, better the devil you know.

Do not use check a trade. I used it for done window installer's and also conservatory build, they were terrible. Used the wrong bricks, didn’t dig the foundations deep enough and it’s a good job be nosey neighbours that told me.

Failed to turn up to correct it all and when I put a negative post on check a trade, they insisted on a staggering amount of evidence to prove they were rubbish. My word and photos weren’t enough.

Sorry forgot to put that they refused to post my review.

It's so hard. We found what we thought were brilliant builders, did a lot of work for us, like completely rebuilding our old cottage. Messed up the floor totally and we fell out spectacularly, really upset me actually as thought we had them for life. Still not resolved a year later.

Correct. There are zero negative reviews on Checkatrade this making it all completely pointless. Im guessing your scathing review wasnt published?

@BobbyBiscuits "The older tradesmen are literally dying out".
I'm not too much hands on these days but have retained my Gas Safe registration. A couple of weeks ago i had my GasSafe on site inspection and an interesting yet depressing chat with the inspector.

It turns out the average age of the owner of a Gas Safe registered business is 55 and a vast number being sole traders. Most will be retiring in the next 5-10 years. I would hazard a guess that few would look to take on an apprentice in the last few years as businesses wind down. When these businesses do go, there is no one left to train anyone.

That's before you get into other reasons why people may choose not to go into the trades nor why those already involved may choose not to take on a trainee. Take your pick; the stigma attached to doing 'hands on' work, parental expectation and prestige of going to university,the fact that it can be graft with a long term detrimental effect on the body or the fact that for many it is still relatively poorly paid.

When my last apprentice and i parted ways on completion of his time, I asked what he fancied doing next and would he become self employed; his answer " nah, i've seen how hard you work, I don't want to work that hard:.

@Moosey65 thank you. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me all. This was happening a lot when I worked for clients in that industry, it's been an issue for more than a decade but now it seems to be getting worse! It's really sad.
I wish I had a a set of quints aged 17, I'd be trying my best to get them all on the tools to do my bit for the skills gap. If I wasn't so physically disabled I'd even considered retraining as an older apprentice!
That's another thing, there are hardly any women in the trades. And that never seems to change much.

Brexit. Hundreds of thousands of hard-working, skilled people had to return to their home countries.
Not enough skilled UK born tradespeople to take their place not enough being trained.

Last time we had major work done, a large extension and renovation, we used the Federation of master builders the people we found were fantastic.
Other trades have all been word of mouth and asking other trades for recommendations.

I've just moved out of London to a seaside city. I thought trades would be cheaper out of London, they're not, they're more expensive. Truly shocking