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Landlord request feels unfair

569 replies

Uberbeeboo · 23/08/2024 17:25

Hi, I'm looking for some advice about our rights as tenants. We have lived in our rental property for coming up to 5 years and were made aware in March our landlord wanted to sell when our tenancy ended on 31st august 2024.

We therefore purchased a new build property which we believed would have been built by now, however we now have been given the completion date of 30th September 2024.

Today we asked the estate agent who manages our property if we can stay until our new property is ready to move into and they have responded with an ultimatum saying we can stay, but there will be a £400 increase of the rent per month starting next week when the rent is due.

The rental house is not sold and we've only done 2 viewings since April. We've been good tenants and were disappointed we had to move anyway. We really can't afford an extra £400 next week, so I was hoping if someone would kindly give me a little guidance with this please?

OP posts:
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CandleJuice · 23/08/2024 18:42

As well as paying the usual rent inform the landlord that due to the attempt to increase the rent you feel the relationship has soured and as he hasn't appreciated your previous good will, you will no longer be allowing any showings of the property. If they try to enter without your permission change the locks. Keep the old locks and change them back before you leave. What cheeky fucker!

SheilaFentiman · 23/08/2024 18:44

Ah, even better!

”hi landlord,, as you will be aware, rent changes require at least 30 days notice and then apply from the next payment date after that. We do not anticipate staying past 30th September but we note the increased rent if we were to seek to stay into October”

roses2 · 23/08/2024 18:48

It might not be the landlord, it could be the agent trying it on.

Either way you are not rolling your tenancy as you gave/were given notice. So they could put the rent to whatever they want without notice as it's effectively a new agreement.

Don't be a dick and stay there without their consent. Negotiate to what is fair.

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 23/08/2024 18:52

@Uberbeeboo one full month's notice is required for rent increase. to be honest, speak to the landlord himself. If no good, then just dig your heels in and refuse to move/ it will take them a lot longer to evict/ what is your usual rent?

Chonk · 23/08/2024 18:52

fruitbrewhaha · 23/08/2024 18:38

She’s not. She is however entitled to 30 days notice of any raise and is entitled to negotiate.

Why do you think the landlord is entitled to ramp up the rate to whatever he wants?

As in most negotiations there are two parties with differing interests who need to argue for their best option. The landlord thinks he has OP over a barrel. We are pointing out that he doesn’t have all the power at all, quite the contrary. OP isn’t entitled to pay nothing but if that’s what she did there is sweet FA the landlord can do. So perhaps he needs to adjust his interpretation of the situation here.

Why is she entitled to 30 days notice when it's effectively a new tenancy? The OP's current tenancy ends on 31 August 2024. The OP has confirmed that the S21 was served appropriately. The landlord could therefore allow a new tenant to rent the property from 1 September 2024, at a rate of £1200/month. So why should the OP get to decide she's only paying £800? Edited for typo.

Broodingartist · 23/08/2024 18:55

They can't kick you out without a possession order, even after the s21 date has passed, however they could move to court proceedings, with you being made responsible for the costs involved.

Uberbeeboo · 23/08/2024 18:56

It's not a situation I want to be in, I just genuinely can't afford an extra £400 next week as everything is invested in the new place.

OP posts:
caringcarer · 23/08/2024 19:06

fruitbrewhaha · 23/08/2024 18:38

She’s not. She is however entitled to 30 days notice of any raise and is entitled to negotiate.

Why do you think the landlord is entitled to ramp up the rate to whatever he wants?

As in most negotiations there are two parties with differing interests who need to argue for their best option. The landlord thinks he has OP over a barrel. We are pointing out that he doesn’t have all the power at all, quite the contrary. OP isn’t entitled to pay nothing but if that’s what she did there is sweet FA the landlord can do. So perhaps he needs to adjust his interpretation of the situation here.

If she refuses to pay he can take her to court and ruin her credit rating. He should give 1 months notice of a ren't increase but he didn't because she's supposed to have moved out.

SheilaFentiman · 23/08/2024 19:12

caringcarer · 23/08/2024 19:06

If she refuses to pay he can take her to court and ruin her credit rating. He should give 1 months notice of a ren't increase but he didn't because she's supposed to have moved out.

ok… but it doesn’t sound like he’s proposing a new contract with a new deposit etc etc … so by definition, isn’t he rolling the current contract and hence needs to give the 30 day notice?

Spirallingdownwards · 23/08/2024 19:25

MolkosTeenageAngst · 23/08/2024 17:56

https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/rent-increases#:~:text=Otherwise%2C%20your%20landlord%20can%3A,after%20the%20fixed%20term%20has

To me the wording suggests that they must give 30 days notice even if they are increasing the rent when renewing the tenancy, so if they have only informed you today it sounds to me like they could only expect you to pay the rent increase from 1st October and that rent for the first month should remain the same.

I guess the worry is if you’re not willing to pay the higher price, and if that’s the value they’re expecting a new tenant to pay, they might prefer to have you move out on 31st August as agreed and get new tenants in. I understand £400 is a lot of extra money to find, but I suppose in the landlords eyes it is a lot of money to lose as well if that’s the market value and what a new tenant would pay.

They don't have to move out on 31 August unless the landlord has an eviction order which he won't have

Spirallingdownwards · 23/08/2024 19:28

Chonk · 23/08/2024 18:52

Why is she entitled to 30 days notice when it's effectively a new tenancy? The OP's current tenancy ends on 31 August 2024. The OP has confirmed that the S21 was served appropriately. The landlord could therefore allow a new tenant to rent the property from 1 September 2024, at a rate of £1200/month. So why should the OP get to decide she's only paying £800? Edited for typo.

Edited

It isn't a new tenancy. In legal terms they are holding over under the existing one

Spirallingdownwards · 23/08/2024 19:29

roses2 · 23/08/2024 18:48

It might not be the landlord, it could be the agent trying it on.

Either way you are not rolling your tenancy as you gave/were given notice. So they could put the rent to whatever they want without notice as it's effectively a new agreement.

Don't be a dick and stay there without their consent. Negotiate to what is fair.

They are absolutely holding over under the existing tenancy. They remain on it until they leave or are evicted

RadioBamboo · 23/08/2024 19:42

I'm guessing that the landlord wants you out ASAP so that be can sell before a predicted hefty rise in CGT in the Autumn budget. It's all speculation, but it seems likely that CGT on property will increase from 28% to 40%. Depending on the figures in your particular case you hanging around could cost the landlord tens of thousands in extra CGT. I'm also guessing that he's using the rent-increase threat to try to persuade you to move out somewhere else as an interim measure, because that's just about the only leverage he has at this point.

If I'm right then you're in an extremely strong negotiating position. You're legally entitled to stay until a court orders you out, which is not happening until long after the budget. If you really wanted to play hardball you could have a look at what he paid for the place, do a rough calculation of what he'll be paying in excess CGT if it increases to 40%, and offer to move into temporary accommodation for half of that sum. You would very likely be talking about a hefty four or five figure sum.

Uberbeeboo · 23/08/2024 19:47

They haven't requested I sign anything fortunately, they just said I can stay but at the inflated cost payable from 1st September. I do feel it was naive of the agents to put that to me when it appears it's not legal.

OP posts:
TheFlis · 23/08/2024 19:54

Time to play hardball. If they want to push the rent up then you will want quiet enjoyment of the property as you are legally entitled to and so will not allow any more viewings.

norma1980 · 23/08/2024 20:03

When does the tenancy officially end - when the tenant has moved out or the date the tenant says they're moving out and have paid rent up until please?

MiseryIn · 23/08/2024 20:44

I'd be tempted not to pay as hell just take it from your deposit as arrears anyway.

And I say this as someone who works in the industry.

Uberbeeboo · 23/08/2024 20:53

I do worry about this even though we've kept the house in good order. It's a very run down house and needs a lot of work. The oven is the same oven from when he bought it in 2004. I think if he wanted an excuse to take the deposit he'll find it no matter what we do.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 23/08/2024 21:24

Uberbeeboo · 23/08/2024 20:53

I do worry about this even though we've kept the house in good order. It's a very run down house and needs a lot of work. The oven is the same oven from when he bought it in 2004. I think if he wanted an excuse to take the deposit he'll find it no matter what we do.

No, if your deposit is in the deposit protection scheme, he has to provide evidence as to why it shouldn’t be returned to you in full. Wear and tear is not enough of a reason.

Iwantascone · 23/08/2024 23:05

Your tenancy has ended and the landlord wants you out. He's obviously hoping you won't want go pay the extra and will pack up and go. As you should. You're being unfair saying you'll stay as long as you want.

Uberbeeboo · 23/08/2024 23:20

Iwantascone I'm packed and ready to go. My life is in boxes as I thought I'd be out. I know I should be out but I'm curious to know what you would realistically do?

OP posts:
Chonk · 24/08/2024 07:17

Uberbeeboo · 23/08/2024 23:20

Iwantascone I'm packed and ready to go. My life is in boxes as I thought I'd be out. I know I should be out but I'm curious to know what you would realistically do?

I'd find the extra £400 and pay it. If you really can't find £400 then you've overstretched yourselves with the new house.

Londonnight · 24/08/2024 07:27

To increase the rent they have to give correct notice on the correct form ( section 8 possibly) . This gives you one months notice of increase. Unless you sign contract agreeing, then you don't have to pay the extra

MzHz · 24/08/2024 09:50

Uberbeeboo · 23/08/2024 18:10

The landlord has no intention of renting it back out, it's on the market at an oddly high price which is being reduced every month when there's no viewings. I do understand his frustration and I had no intention of being awkward and wanted to leave on good terms.

I think I'll just have to keep applying pressure on my solicitors to get this sale through ASAP.

My dear @Uberbeeboo please try not to let this get to you, I know how stressful all this will be because you’re OBVIOUSLY a decent person.

your landlord however is NOT. You don’t need to leave “on good terms” and your LL is the one queering the pitch.

You’re buying a house, you’re NEVER going to need this crappy human again! No references, no inspections, renewal of contract…..nothing.

please don’t just roll over on this rent, his attempt at extortion is illegal. Tell him no.

and also you DONT have to allow viewings regardless of what a contract says, so pull that off the table now too.

Make sure you have the fully itemised inventory with photos of the check in and that is the standard to which you return his property. If it was professionally cleaned, do that. Get a receipt. If not, leave it as the condition it was given to you in. No better.

he can’t deduct anything from your deposit

also… if he is selling the property (get screenshots or the brochure) then he can’t say that there is anything needed to put right before next tenant. He’s trying to sell it ‘as is’ and the price it’s advertised for is based on the current condition.

ex inventory clerk here, have had this very situation where landlord trying to deduct from deposit when he’d already agreed a sale - thrown out.

as others have said, you may not feel it, but you actually hold all the cards here. He’s trying to shaft you.

and actually if you decided not to pay rent, he can’t automatically deduct it from your deposit.

my advice? Tell him no to the rise, and carry on as you are, but don’t allow viewings. If anything is said, tell him that you were being cooperative but he’s trying to screw you, so no more good will at all from your side. If he’s willing to waive a proportion of the rent - 25% or thereabouts - to compensate for the inconvenience of viewings, you’ll agree to them.

Uberbeeboo · 24/08/2024 10:25

Thank you MzHz

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