Discovered Next door had subsidence + underpinned

[cheeseislifeyes]

Hello, I'm a FTB and we are half-way through the conveyancing process.
we like the house (victorian period property), Level 3 survey shows a few issues, but nothing major. the surveyor says they can't see obvious signs of subsidence but there is a footnote saying they aren't structural engineers, plumbers, roof specialists etc etc. what is the point of them really?!

anywaaaay... we found out through the Building control site that right next door to the house (literally 4 metres away) the neighbour had subsidence in the early 1990s and this was underpinned. i knocked on the neighbours doors - he's an old man but he said there's been no problems since the underpinning (i don't entirely trust him as i'm sure he wants to sell his house soon).

our vendor has declared no subsidence history with the house.

we are a bit concerned about next door's subsidence though, simply because it has occurred so close to the property we want to buy.

we are thinking of reducing the offered price to reflect this (about £10k - plus some for the few issues raised in the surveyors report).

i would like to hear what recent buyers think? wwyd?

Well you could pay for a specialist structural engineer to take a look but given the neighbours had the work done at least 25 year ago a problem with your house seems very unlikely. Did your neighbour say whet the issue was to cause the problem? It could easily be very specific to his house alone.

the neighbour said they didn't find a cause. there's no trees or anything. they just had a crack that got worse and they told their insurer and next thing it was monitored, got worse and so they underpinned. apparently been fine since. he did say our vendor knows about it too because they have lived there for 35 years and they all talked about it whilst it was all happning. i feel this information should have been given to us as i also asked (over email too) about subsidence (albeit it was about subsidence to the property i'm interested in itself). regardless, 4metres is very close to me

I don't really want to pay for the struct engineer at this point. they'll cover their back and put us in a situation saying there could be subsidence and higher risk etc etc. i just feel i know this already so would rather go to the vendor now with a reduced offer. i just don't knw what others think if this were them?

Given that you have no evidence of subsidence present at the property, it's unlikely the vendor will accept a 10k reduction based on it. I'm an estate agent and there's no way we would recommend taking a reduced offer with no evidence to back up the reasoning. If it's something you're concerned about, you could arrange for a specialist survey.

thanks.
what do you mean by specialist survey?
the thing is, every buyer will see this. it came up because we were told the windows were regularised, so appear on building control site. every buyer will see this because all the neighbours information comes up too. if we are concerned, other buyers will be too

If I were the vendor I wouldn't reduce on this basis. You have no evidence backed up with facts just worries. You could ask them to take out an indemnity, your solicitor will handle that and it will likely only cost the vendors £100-200.

Yes all surveyors have small print but if you distrust them so much why bother with a level 3 survey? Though they do miss stuff, they also tend to more cautious than reckless. Our survey brought up a number of potential 'issues' that our builder demonstrated were of no concern.

You need someone to do a survey who will give you a report indicating there is subsidence (or not, and it will put your mind at ease). Without an official report detailing subsidence, you will have a very hard time negotiating money off.

Just because the house next door has subsidence doesn't mean your house has it too. The subsidence could be because of number of reasons specific to the house. And why should the seller declare about subsidence in the form, the subsidence dint happen is his place it happened at neighbours. I think reducing 10K without any proof is not right.

We bought a house with subsidence. All checks by the insurance company over a period of two years showed no further evidence of significant movement. Old houses are old- they'll move. Also, if a house has been underpinned (ours isn't), it'll be the safest house on the street! I wouldn't worry but that's just me.

You think the vendor should have disclosed something that happened to their neighbours house?
You really didn't have to tell us you are a ftb. It's kind of obvious

Is there clay soil? Any large trees? Any cracks or misaligned windows or doorways.?
Any major building works nearby?
if neighbours work was 25 years ago I’d not worry about it.

>I don't really want to pay for the struct engineer at this point. they'll cover their back and put us in a situation saying there could be subsidence and higher risk etc etc.

I don’t think they will actually. I think you are assuming they behave like arse covering surveyors. If you pay for one to assess if there is subsidence they should just answer the question: yes or no.

> I feel i know this already so would rather go to the vendor now with a reduced offer. i just don't knw what others think if this were them?

You seem to be under the impression that if there is subsidence, you will be paying for it. You won’t, your insurer will. You have done your due diligence and you are in the clear as far as any future claims are concerned. Just make sure you get a good insurance policy.

Are you aware of how obvious subsidence is? Is the house rendered or bare brick? You can literally fit your fingers in these cracks, so if you can see bare brick with your own eyes and there are none, it’s highly unlikely to have been affected by next door.

As a pp said, underpinning would make it the strongest house in the street anyway. Which your insurer will pay for.

I don’t think you will get any money off for what may happen and I think your vendors will become wary of you as a buyer if you even ask.

My grandad's house was subsiding and so were several houses adjacent to his in the road. The houses were built on clay and apparently that was why.

If I was you I'd do some further research. I agree that the next door house is none of your business but it would concern me enough to research a bit further.

Yes you can have it underpinned but its a pain, it means you can only use certain insurers and you will have to declare it if sold in future.

You can get specialists in subsidence to take a look. Any diagonal cracks on the outside? are there cracks inside? do the doors stick and not fully fit the doorways?

You have no grounds for a reduction.

If you want the house, buy it. If you don't, find another.

Future buyers won't be haggling over another property's subsidence. That's like me asking for £10k off my house because my neighbours roof looks old. It's irrelevant.

Do you think this could be FTB nerves?

Carry on with the purchase at the agreed price, or back out. As PP have said, you have no grounds to ask for a reduction.
Old houses come with risks, that insurance covers.

Havent RTFT
But as a first time buyer this likely isnt your last property.
You want something you can make some money on and is ideally easy to sell (desirable) even in a slow market.

Either buy it super cheap ( you shouldnt but you can renegotiate at any point.. its gazundering) or just walk.

If you cant make some cash on it, its not worth the hassle.
I have seen Victorian houses with new /recent subsidence it is not for the faint of heart.

OP,

1. No sign of subsidence at your property
2. Historic subsidence at next door

There's no reason here, at all, to apply for a reduction. As pp have said, it won't be you paying out anyway.

Victorian terraces are old, they move, they're still standing.

You sound like one of those buyers who is just casting around for any excuse to try and chip the price down. If potential subsidence truly worried you, you'd be asking about whether to pull out, not whether to try to screw some money out of the vendor. As a vendor I wouldn't countenance a reduction because of subsidence in a property some distance away a quarter of a century ago, and it would make me mistrustful of you going forward.

We've literally had a structural engineer out today to look at some cracking. You'd have to give them something to look at- some cracking or damage- or you're just showing a perfectly good House. What are they going to look at?

I also don't think they'll cover their backs, they will have a much better idea of normal levels of cracking and movement. Some of the houses in our street are underpinned, others aren't, it's often been trees or drains. It's been 25 years so yes you are being unreasonable.

hello. update" i've spoken to a few structural engineers who have said the subsidence next door is a factor they definitely consider when assessing the structural integrity of the property. so those saying "next door's subsidence is none of your business"... lol.

There are clearly lots of MN sellers on this thread who are perhaps a little frightened of a thing called the internet where buyers have access to information about neighbours and neighbouring properties that could affect the structural integrity of the home they might purchase. whether you like it or not, neighbouring properties do matter, just as much as the neighbours themselves.

good luck in this market full of millenials and genz from the information age .

You haven't said where you are buying. Where I lived in South East London subsidence was very common and no one would have accepted a lower offer just because next door had been under pinned.

I sold mine 5 months after it was under pinned, it didn't impact the sale at all. Just about every other house had been under pinned in our street.

Hopefully the sellers will know that they do not need to give you 10k for nothing and will move on to more reasonable buyers. Of course the structural engineers will say it could be a problem, it well could at some unknown point in the future, but that's not the seller's problem. If it needs to be underpinned at any point your insurance will cover it. If you don't like that idea you don't need to buy it.

Dear god... have a word with yourself! "Scared of the internet"?

good luck in this market full of millenials and genz from the information age

😂😂🤣

It’s quite simple. If you are worried pay for a structural engineer to assess the property. A structural engineer will give their honest and objective view.

But there really is no need to be rude to people who have replied to you.

A crack was found during survey of our last house. Spoke to surveyor who seemed to know which areas locally were prone to subsidence, so you could st least ask them if property is in such an area. We has the crack checked aa well as a look at rest of property and I don't think it cost that much in relation to all other purchase costs.