Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Property/DIY

Join our Property forum for renovation, DIY, and house selling advice.

Forcing the sale of the FMH when shares are unclear

34 replies

Canttakemuchmoreofthis0 · 20/01/2024 16:42

I do have an appointment with a family law and property solicitor next week but I'm hoping I can get a rough understanding of where I stand from mumsnetters first.

My long term unmarried partner and I (we share 2 young DC) split in October. We jointly own our property as Tenants in common but the shares we hold are unclear..

My XP wanted to manage the whole sale and mortgage process himself, I had almost no involvement bar signing forms when I was asked to. A little while before completion, I realised on a purchase questionnaire sent to the conveyancer he had stated we wanted to buy as tenants in common with unequal shares, he had followed this up by email to state the shares 'we' wanted were 40/60 in his favour. We had never had a conversation on this, but I had signed the form. He had put in 2/3 compared to my 1/3 of the money as his parents gave him some money and mine weren't able to. He had a big argument about this when I realised what I had signed, and he told me it wasn't important anymore as 'it had been changed to 50/50'. I thought nothing more of it.

Fast-forward to today, and I have no clue what shares I hold. I know there wasn't a declaration of trust (which I understand is where actual shares and/or ringfencing of deposits is listed?). I've spoken to the conveyancer and the TRI form and land registry document are also inconclusive.. See picture attached, it looks like the first box was ticked then erased, and the 3rd box doesn't list the actual shares (should it?) but does use the word unequal. Does the absence of a deed of trust mean the property would have had to be registered equally? The conveyancer seemed to be saying this (but perhaps they're trying to cover their tracks for a professional negligence claim?

Can my XP rely on the purchase questionnaire and the email he sent - would he have a good case for 60?

Does the fact that he sent the email stating 40/60 and not me have any bearing?

Our house has gone up hugely in value and we've spent at least 50k jointly on works and renovations. I'm having to consider forcing the sale as he downright refuses to sell. He wants to buy me out, but in no hurry at all. We've had 6 agency valuations giving a medium value of 687k. Our remaining mortgage is 330k.

He's saying he will give me 50%, but due to this generosity on his part, I should accept 150k, which is the 'realistic value' he's given it of 650 minus agency fees (!?).

I won't be able to get another mortgage to house the DC with that figure and am relying on the actual equity of 178k, based on the medium value above, hence the reason I need to consider forcing the sale. We've bene mediating for 3 months and it's going nowhere.

Do I have any chance of getting my legal costs deducted from his equity due to his non-cooperation?

Forcing the sale of the FMH when shares are unclear
OP posts:
regenerate · 20/01/2024 16:47

wait until you’re in front of a solicitor

i can’t really make head nor tail of this so maybe hot down before seeing solicitor to save time

but i am baffled you went ahead with the purchase tbh. Too late now but he’s never been anything other than underhand and surprising you didn’t check that 50/50 given he’d misled

Riverstep · 20/01/2024 16:51

How is the property market where you live? In some areas, houses are selling for less than their valuations so your ex may be quite accurate with the ‘realistic value’ of 650k. If you proceed with force of sale, solicitors fees will soon deplete the equity and there is no guarantee that ex will be instructed to pay your costs.

regenerate · 20/01/2024 16:51

are you honestly saying that the email is the only evidence that not equal?

it will be explicitly stated in a separate document

regenerate · 20/01/2024 16:52

ignore!

regenerate · 20/01/2024 16:54

why not for the property to be sold and then you’re not dealing with theoretical figures

DrySherry · 20/01/2024 16:58

I think he sounds fair tbh.
If you force the sale in the current climate you might end up with less than the 150k your being offered. He did also put in double the deposit amount, if I understand you correctly, so surely he should be ahead by at least that plus the percentage of increase ?

MyGooseisTotallyLoose · 20/01/2024 17:02

DrySherry · 20/01/2024 16:58

I think he sounds fair tbh.
If you force the sale in the current climate you might end up with less than the 150k your being offered. He did also put in double the deposit amount, if I understand you correctly, so surely he should be ahead by at least that plus the percentage of increase ?

This, if he put more in, why wouldn't he get more out, of course the 50k you've put in equally should split equally.

Quitelikeit · 20/01/2024 17:12

Gosh what type of man would argue over 28k if it meant his kids could be housed

regenerate · 20/01/2024 17:13

Quitelikeit · 20/01/2024 17:12

Gosh what type of man would argue over 28k if it meant his kids could be housed

huh?

and how do you know agreed future living arrangements?

Canttakemuchmoreofthis0 · 20/01/2024 17:35

Riverstep · 20/01/2024 16:51

How is the property market where you live? In some areas, houses are selling for less than their valuations so your ex may be quite accurate with the ‘realistic value’ of 650k. If you proceed with force of sale, solicitors fees will soon deplete the equity and there is no guarantee that ex will be instructed to pay your costs.

Houses in this area are always popular and there's a waitlist waiting for them to come into market. I was thinking I may try to represent myself if I proceed with the forced sale. Why should he be able to deduct agency fees from his buy out offer? That's totally unfair

OP posts:
Riverstep · 20/01/2024 17:43

The form you have copied above has an X in the ‘they are to hold the property on trust’ box. This third option is advised to be chosen if holding unequal shares. I think it is important for you to find out whether it is actually 60/40 or 50/50.

regenerate · 20/01/2024 17:45

Canttakemuchmoreofthis0 · 20/01/2024 17:35

Houses in this area are always popular and there's a waitlist waiting for them to come into market. I was thinking I may try to represent myself if I proceed with the forced sale. Why should he be able to deduct agency fees from his buy out offer? That's totally unfair

i think you’re a bit confused op

m00rfarm · 20/01/2024 17:48

Quitelikeit · 20/01/2024 17:12

Gosh what type of man would argue over 28k if it meant his kids could be housed

And you, of course, know all the information about him and not just what you read on the OP?

m00rfarm · 20/01/2024 17:50

Why did you split? Should he be feeling guilty? Why should he get less from the house when he put more money in when you purchased it?

BirthdayRainbow · 20/01/2024 17:52

Don't free to anything else or sign anything. Speak to a solicitor. It's shocking how many men are reasonable until the actual figures come out.

Riverstep · 20/01/2024 17:57

Canttakemuchmoreofthis0 · 20/01/2024 17:35

Houses in this area are always popular and there's a waitlist waiting for them to come into market. I was thinking I may try to represent myself if I proceed with the forced sale. Why should he be able to deduct agency fees from his buy out offer? That's totally unfair

The agency fees deduction should be split eg if it would cost 10k then that’s 5k each. I wonder if there is in fact an unequal split. Your ex paid 2/3 of the deposit to your 1/3. In his position I would also have expected to either hold a higher percentage of the property or have the extra 1/3 I contributed ring fenced in case of separation. But I would have been transparent about it. Did your solicitor not go through all the paper work with you both when you were purchasing the property? Ours did and made sure we both knew what we were signing.

Canttakemuchmoreofthis0 · 20/01/2024 18:36

Riverstep · 20/01/2024 17:57

The agency fees deduction should be split eg if it would cost 10k then that’s 5k each. I wonder if there is in fact an unequal split. Your ex paid 2/3 of the deposit to your 1/3. In his position I would also have expected to either hold a higher percentage of the property or have the extra 1/3 I contributed ring fenced in case of separation. But I would have been transparent about it. Did your solicitor not go through all the paper work with you both when you were purchasing the property? Ours did and made sure we both knew what we were signing.

I had no involvement with the solicitor nor ever met with them. He's trying to deduct the full agency fees that would be applicable in a SALE from his BUY OUT offer. I certainly have the benefit of reflection now and should never have proceeded with the sale on those terms but I did and I can't change that now.

OP posts:
Canttakemuchmoreofthis0 · 20/01/2024 18:55

regenerate · 20/01/2024 17:45

i think you’re a bit confused op

And why is that?

OP posts:
DrySherry · 20/01/2024 19:22

Seriously, you bought a home and the solicitor didn't make you sign in person and show your identity ? I think that's illegal and you may actually have a case for malpractice if that's correct.

DrySherry · 20/01/2024 19:25

"Under the Law of Property (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1989, section 2, the contract must be in writing and incorporate all the agreed terms. The contract will require a wet signature by all buyers and sellers"

I might be wrong but I always thought a wet signature meant you must sign in the solicitor's presence

ClimbingHydrangea · 20/01/2024 19:31

DrySherry · 20/01/2024 19:22

Seriously, you bought a home and the solicitor didn't make you sign in person and show your identity ? I think that's illegal and you may actually have a case for malpractice if that's correct.

Eh? I’ve never signed in front of a solicitor. I’ve never even met the conveyancer we use, I sent ID docs right at the beginning, and then signed in front of witnesses and sent the papers in each time I’ve purchased a house.

ClimbingHydrangea · 20/01/2024 19:31

@DrySherry - a wet signature just means not photocopied.

Canttakemuchmoreofthis0 · 20/01/2024 19:32

DrySherry · 20/01/2024 19:25

"Under the Law of Property (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1989, section 2, the contract must be in writing and incorporate all the agreed terms. The contract will require a wet signature by all buyers and sellers"

I might be wrong but I always thought a wet signature meant you must sign in the solicitor's presence

I never met with the solicitor but we had a friend act as witness for us signing the contract. Perhaps that's sufficient? But yes on reflection I don't know why they were willing to take all instruction from only one of the two parties involved in the sale.

OP posts:
ClimbingHydrangea · 20/01/2024 19:36

Canttakemuchmoreofthis0 · 20/01/2024 19:32

I never met with the solicitor but we had a friend act as witness for us signing the contract. Perhaps that's sufficient? But yes on reflection I don't know why they were willing to take all instruction from only one of the two parties involved in the sale.

One of the documents you signed and didn’t read would have given them permission.

DrySherry · 20/01/2024 19:37

ClimbingHydrangea · 20/01/2024 19:31

Eh? I’ve never signed in front of a solicitor. I’ve never even met the conveyancer we use, I sent ID docs right at the beginning, and then signed in front of witnesses and sent the papers in each time I’ve purchased a house.

Your correct, it doesn't mean what I thought it did.

Swipe left for the next trending thread