How to make a cheeky offer without alienating seller/EA?

[User7164]

Hello!

We are first time buyers and have been house searching for the last year or so. Recently found a house we love, good area for raising our little one schools nearby and a quiet cul de sac. The house is listed for £450K and has been on the market for >5 months.

The average selling price in the street is quite high with a few (bigger houses with bigger gardens) going for 450-500k, but we feel for the size and garden size of this one, and the money we’d need to invest in replacing all bathrooms and upgrading kitchen (and perhaps an extension) that it’s not worth 450. In all honestly, I think it’s around 100k overpriced.

We think our absolute max that we believe the house Is worth would be 400k. We want to go in with a low offer, but I’m cautious as the last time we offered 15% below on a house we liked the EA basically cut us off. I don’t want to offend the seller at all because they were so lovely!!

Any tips on how to go into this? Thanks!

Have you actually completed yet?
You are in a different area, at a different price point, don't say how long your house has been on the market and have also had a better offer. It's not the same as the above situation.
I'm just making the point that waiting on the market for months and months is v unlikely to yield better offers are present.

I think the whole set up of house pricing is somewhat hilarious.

My mother has been looking to downsize for some time now, so has been looking at bungalows in her area. She's now looked at 4 out of a row of 8 identikit bungalows at various stages of her sale. They have slowly come down about 10-15% on where they were this time last year. This week a new one came up 15% higher than Jan 2023. We looked at it - its awful - damp, cracks, unusable kitchen etc. But the EA was adamant it was worth the asking price and the vendor (who has been trying to sell it privately via a card in the window for 6 months) would not entertain anything less. As she's now in a very decent position to buy she has moved on to something else.

OP if it helps, the EA told me to look at the price per livable sq. ft.. as a guide.

There's nothing to stop you making whatever offer you want @User7164 but I do sometimes think going in with a very low ball offer and then a war of attrition might harm your chances of coming to an agreement. So what I would do is if you are prepared to pay 405 and the house is worth it to you , I would go in at 402 and say to EA that is pretty much the top of your budget , see what they say and then if a no, offer 405 and say that is our walk away point (if indeed it is. )

This is on the totally unscientific principle that anything with a 3 in front of it I suspect will just not be met as kindly. Don't offer more than you are prepared to pay but do be prepared to walk away and hope to find a better house if it goes above that.

Our current house we offered a squidge less than we had but when it came to best and final offers we gave them our final offer which was a very little more , we had no chain and ours wasn't the highest offer but we made it clear it was that price and not a penny more ( it was genuinely the highest we could pay. )The house was perfectly liveable but dated. Had we taken into account renovations we would not have been in the ball park Ours was not the highest offer but we did get it. I think having no chain helped.

What you think the house is worth compared to others is one thing and that is your choice . What the vendors think it is worth or what they are prepared to sell it for is another. The last house we sold a very nice man came round with a spreadsheet showing all the alterations he wanted to make and the offer he had made based on that. He was nice and polite but the answer was no. The house was perfectly fine newly decorated etc - his taste was not really our problem & we weren't prepared to move for a price which accommodated his vision for it. We did sell for about 4- 5% less than asking with a couple who were proceduarable.

But all the best and good luck. My opinion is a personal one only - lots of others are available.

That was natural inflation when rates were at normal levels, all that stopped when cheap debt took over as the main driver of house prices, there is no way that wages have matched the house price rises we have seen over the last few years, that would be an absurd statement! Best thing to do is to look at sold prices for the street when rates were last at 5%, and then see if any real improvements have been done (very few improvements actually add much value, especially in a falling market)

Use this to gauge seller sentiment before making offers.

https://www.propertylog.net/

That's interesting as it has valued my house at more than two agents did two months ago and just under a third. Not sure what to do now as looking to sell.

Priced at £450k and been on for over 5 months suggests that it may be overpriced. But also suggests that the vendor won't take offers much under. Do you know if there have been offers? I would ask the EA first to get a gauge of what is likely to be accepted and if it feels reasonable then go in slightly under that.

Houses go up in value due to inflation and wage growth, although as mortgage rates have gone up, it may feel unfair that house prices rise so much. But something like 30% of houses bought are done so without a mortgage.
As a previous poster mentioned, are there comparable houses on the market for £350k? Also take a look at similar houses that have sold recently to get an idea of what is a sensible price in your area.
Good luck.

I'm interested in comments about if the house has been on for five months it's too expensive.

I've booked to view a house. Went on in Feb and sold in April. They pulled out for own reasons, not house related, put back on though the EA receptionist can't tell me when, for £10k less and still for sale. Any thoughts on what is fair to offer? I'm confused as already reduced. It sold at the reduced price and when it fell through they put it back on at that and not the original higher price.

Just to reiterate what others have said. When we sold our last house 26 years ago we had an offer with about £5k under on 95k as it would need a new boiler “soon”. I said that had I wanted to pay for a new boiler I would have done it and had the benefit myself. An asking price offer followed. So be careful what you say about work needing to be done.

Thanks again for all of your advice, really helpful hearing different views.

It’s not that we can’t afford the asking price, we can comfortably and will be around 2/3 cash (we have been saving for a looong time for this!) so feel we have a bit of an edge, along with no chain and mortgage advisor and solicitor ready to go. However, I would rather get the house for a lower price to allow for alterations to suit my personal taste (who wouldn’t…?!).

The seller mentioned at our viewing that ‘not a lot of people are looking for houses in their price range at the mo’ which suggests a lack of interest and potentially a willingness to budge? Also mentioned they are wanting to move to be closer to secondary schools with their children starting in the next year, so also possibly a bit of urgency?

We have viewed 7 properties in the last year and made an offer on one that was rejected and pissed off the EA, so not going to make that same mistake again.

Going to take some of the advice from here and simply explain to EA that we love the house, but realistically to budget for the works we’d personally like to carry out, we wouldn’t be sure if our offer would be considered and wouldn’t want to piss anyone off. Going to mention 400K and just see what they say about the figure before formally submitting an offer.

will keep you updated!

Good luck OP - I’d be surprised if they accept it at this moment in time… even if you’re right and this is the most it’s worth, in my experience you need to wait for the seller to psychologically accept their fate first by lowering the asking price to be more realistic, and only then are they likely to accept the lower amount.

You never know, they might almost be that point - and in discussions with their EA about a price reduction to get it under offer - but I’d imagine they’re hoping for £425k or £415k at a push with that asking price. Five months online suggests it is overpriced and they should be considering reducing asking price to £425k.

'Going to take some of the advice from here and simply explain to EA that we love the house, but realistically to budget for the works we’d personally like to carry out, we wouldn’t be sure if our offer would be considered and wouldn’t want to piss anyone off. Going to mention 400K and just see what they say about the figure before formally submitting an offer.'

I really wouldn't say this. Talking about the work you fancy doing as a justification for reducing the price is going to annoy the seller and agent.
Either have a discussion with the agent and tell them you like it but don't want to offer at present as you think it is over priced so do let me know if they might accept a lower offer/ reduce the AP (fact that it hasn't sold in 5 months supports this) or submit an offer via email with your max amount, no justification, etc (see MovingHomewithCharlie as a couple of us suggested).

Good Luck @User7164 I think your tactics sound decent and I’m glad you’ve taken the advice not to start at a number beginning with a 3 as that would risk not being taken seriously.

I like hearing people’s updates so yes please do let us know and hope for a successful outcome.

I agree. And maybe getting an offer pitched at 400k (possibly not the first low offer for all we know) will help them to understand that in order to sell they will very likely need to lower their expectations.

So the offer could be useful to them even if they decide at this stage not to accept it.

I’ve just done it for mine, which is currently on the market for £20k less than the valuation given on that site.

I think it’s more accurate to look at the sold prices in your street/immediate area to get an idea of value.

That moving home with Charlie guy predicted nominal house falls before inflation of 35% so I think sensible people can see that was click bait & he is not a serious person.

Over three years.

I will reserve judgement until land reg stats are released after the end of 2025.

Thanks for calling a bunch of us not sensible though 👍

Over 3 years yes, from their peak (March 22).

Does anyone still seriously think prices will have fallen 35% by March 25, before inflation?? He also said house prices would be experiencing their steepest falls by the end of 2023 “but we won’t see the evidence of that reported for 6-9 months after that “.

Don’t want to derail the thread so I will pose the question also on the House Prices thread & debate it there ( though obviously feel free to answer but I won’t be getting into a big debate on here).

Indeed.
Peak was October 2022 according to ONS (may have been slightly earlier but not much). We need to wait until mid 2026 to see what happened through 2023-25 and this will probably be a period of lower transactions which will skew the data.
Imo no one can make fully accurate predictions either in percentage terms or timing, not Charlie or anyone else. The huge majority of the official forecasts made by the 'sensible people' have been wrong but this is often entirely ignored by the people who want to believe them.
What I have noticed is that articles about lay offs and stretched consumers have escalated significantly. This isn't good for anyone and definitely not for the housing bulls.

Sensible people don't misleadingly paraphrase such things. We know you have an issue with this character. Watch the video that I posted yesterday and tell me which advice is not serious or useful?

Five months on the market could be a red herring. I know of several people who have had offers on houses that have fallen through for various reasons (largely related to mortgage rates. So their houses have been selling for what seems like ages. In reality they've all had steady streams of viewings and plenty of sensible offers.

So it could be that the house is overpriced, it could be that they're waiting for a specific price, or it could be that they new unlucky. Christmas period needs to be more or less discounted anyway as it's horrendously slow, and their agents will have told them to expect upticks from Feb, especially with rates dropping.

I've posted exactly what he said on the House Prices thread but as I said before, not going to get into a big debate on this one

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/4962510-house-prices?page=5&reply=132138100

You're fixated on his estimates and businesses and use that to beat him and "Charlie lovers" down.

The video I posted from him was about helping people frame offers and buy in the current environment. It was nothing about prices. It was entirely relevant to this thread. By dissing him as not a serious person you're encouraging people to ignore the video and thus miss out on valuable advice. That's not great. And it's not helpful.

For anybody else reading, he does operate businesses but they aren't pushed down your throat. You can use them or use your own. It doesn't affect the quality of his advice.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/the-bond-vigilantes-who-could-punish-britain-s-debt-binge/ar-AA1mMUQh

Things can change very fast, watch those debt loads folks!

Update - EA went back to seller with 400K and called us within a few minutes saying their lowest line would be 430. We told them we would mull it over but 400 was really our budget, received another call a couple hours later asking if we would be interested in going back with 410… so they’re definitely willing to come down. We have told them we are still going to hold out a little longer to think it over, if mortgage rates come down significantly we’ll consider 410. Until then will see if the waiting around urges them to come down to 400 to facilitate a quicker sale.