Page 2 | Should I sell my London flat at a loss or wait it out?

ShimmyingThroughTheChaos · 2023-08-08T16:22:02+00:00

I've just received an offer on my flat in Zone 4 in London for £255,000. I bought the flat for £275,000 in 2016. It's 5 mins from a train station, 15 min journey to London Bridge and about 10min car journey to "nice" places like Blackheath and Greenwich. It's a very large split-level ex council property with 88 years on the lease. It's in decent condition and we have received very favourable feedback from viewers on the condition and the amount of space, but only one offer so far (this one). However I am aware of the lease length issue, plus there's the fact that flats are now less desirable than they used to be post COVID and the cladding scandal (even though we don't have cladding , but I think it has spooked would-be buyers of flats across the board). I'm leaning towards just taking the hit and moving on with our lives but DH thinks I'm being too pessimistic. For context we are selling because our family has grown and the flat is just too crowded for all of us. We are looking to upsize in our (perfectly nice but unfashionable) suburb, and we can still afford to do this even if we take a hit on the sale price of the flat.... Please help!

Karmatime · 09/08/2023 07:06

I sold a flat in London early last year, no cladding and a pretty area in zone 2. Prices peaked in 2015 and an identical flat in the small development fetched 17% more then. I’d sell now, I don’t think flat prices are going to increase any time soon. Also 88 years is going to be unattractive to lots of people and if you wait you will most likely have the cost and hassle of extending in order to sell, or have to lower the price further.

Molehillminnie · 09/08/2023 07:11

Just get rid. That lease length is only going to put people off more.

Greenwitchhorse · 09/08/2023 08:14

Sell it now.

The market for London flats has not been good for quite a while (since Covid people want outside space, the cladding scandal put off many people from buying flats and there is an over-supply of new-built flats on the market) and property prices in general are going down in many areas.

I have a friend who has been trying to sell a lovely but a bit dated flat in Maida Vale for almost 4 years now. She has been stubborn and refused a couple of lower offers from buyers and she is stuck with it now as her lease has got to a point where it is close to 80 years

Banks won't lend once the lease gets too short and you would have to pay to get it extended.

Take the offer and it is likely your next property you offer on will gone down as well in this market so you can negotiate a good price.

mildlydispeptic · 09/08/2023 08:37

Lots of good points above. I'd definitely sell in your position. Weak markets are the best time to upsize.

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2023 08:41

Greenwitchhorse · 09/08/2023 08:14

Sell it now.

The market for London flats has not been good for quite a while (since Covid people want outside space, the cladding scandal put off many people from buying flats and there is an over-supply of new-built flats on the market) and property prices in general are going down in many areas.

I have a friend who has been trying to sell a lovely but a bit dated flat in Maida Vale for almost 4 years now. She has been stubborn and refused a couple of lower offers from buyers and she is stuck with it now as her lease has got to a point where it is close to 80 years

Banks won't lend once the lease gets too short and you would have to pay to get it extended.

Take the offer and it is likely your next property you offer on will gone down as well in this market so you can negotiate a good price.

Your friend isn’t exactly stuck with her flat as she could pay to extend the lease.
Though it’s odd that she hasn’t sold in 3 years, very strange. Must have been very unrealistic re its value.

CaledonianSleeper · 09/08/2023 08:51

You should take the offer and move. That way you are being active in your own futures, driving your life forward, moving deliberately towards something better. And yes there may be a financial cost attached to that, but the alternative is a passive state of waiting for things to improve, being reactive to circumstances that may or may not occur. I think the former is an infinitely preferable way to live life, especially if your partner has mental health issues. Good luck to you whatever you decide.

lndnbrdge91 · 09/08/2023 09:47

If the market goes up you'll only pay more for the next property. I would move now, especially if you're planning on staying in the next place for a while. Being in limbo is not good - make the decision and go for it. There is often never a right time.

Original poster

ShimmyingThroughTheChaos · 09/08/2023 09:48

Thanks so much for the replies everyone 🙏
I've accepted the offer.
I really should have extended that lease earlier and I do regret not doing it, but unfortunately we got really clobbered by some adverse life events in the past few years and I just didn't have any bandwidth with all the different plates I was spinning 😬 I think if anyone has had experience of being a working mum and having a spouse have a mental breakdown then you will understand that inevitably some plates are going to get dropped.
To be honest the flat is perfectly adequate for a family of three and would be even better if we got more creative with storage space and switched up the decor. I still think it's a good price for the area and square footage, and I feel like we have been quite pragmatic compared to some of the other sellers in the locality if Zoopla is anything to go by! Almost identical flat a few roads away just came on the market at £300,000 with filthy walls and a CARPETED BATHROOM. In 2023!!!

OP posts:

HundredMilesAnHour · 09/08/2023 09:52

Almost identical flat a few roads away just came on the market at £300,000 with filthy walls and a CARPETED BATHROOM. In 2023!!!

Filthy walls and a carpeted bathroom are cheap and easy to change. A 88 year lease is not.

Original poster

ShimmyingThroughTheChaos · 09/08/2023 09:54

Yes but we have sought legal advice about how expensive and complex it would be to change a lease and have baked that into the new price of the flat, and have shown the figures to the buyer. There are lease extensions and there are lease extensions. This one is pretty vanilla.

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usertaken · 09/08/2023 10:03

Asking prices aren't sold prices though, and quite often people are seduced by EA telling them they could sell at this price to get the business.

The only real data is what people have offered on yours and previous sold prices.

Original poster

ShimmyingThroughTheChaos · 09/08/2023 10:03

Also I've just admitted quite openly that I've come through a horrible time in my personal life. I am well aware of the lease issue and the fact it impacts the property's value. No need to be patronising about it. I am fully cogniscent that a lick of paint is easier to sort out than a lease. My point was that this other property has clearly not been looked after and has a really grotty bathroom that will probably have to be ripped out, whereas we have kept on top of repairs and upgrades as we've gone along, and that has implications too.

OP posts:

Original poster

ShimmyingThroughTheChaos · 09/08/2023 10:09

Average cost of a new bathroom in London is now around £6000. Incidentally that's the same amount we've been quoted to renew the lease! You could also easily drop several grand on replacing manky carpets or splintering wooden floors unless you are really handy and can do these things yourself.

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Motnight · 09/08/2023 10:14

Good luck with the move, Op. Sounds like it will be really beneficial for your family.

Rollercoaster1920 · 09/08/2023 10:19

Would it make sense to renew the lease before selling? How long does it take, and would it add more than £6k to the flat?

piglet81 · 09/08/2023 10:31

In your shoes I think I’d sell and move on. Can you initiate the lease extension now and assign it to the purchaser as part of the sale, so they don’t have to wait the two years or whatever it is? Might make it a more appealing prospect. Good luck!

GasPanic · 09/08/2023 10:47

Probably the right decision.

In CPI terms £275K in 2015 is worth £360K now. Add on the 25K loss, plus 6K for the lease extension plus any other maintainence/improvement charges and you are over 100K down.

Of course you have what it would cost to rent a similar place, minus the mortgage charges to factor in.

But overall it looks like a millstone to me. Better off moving to a freehold property that fits your lifestyle better and holds its value - making sure that the mortgage is affordable of course.

I think without a big increase in salary, a lot of people are going to end up trapped in starter flats and never be able to make the move up to another property.

Twiglets1 · 09/08/2023 11:20

ShimmyingThroughTheChaos · 09/08/2023 09:48

Thanks so much for the replies everyone 🙏
I've accepted the offer.
I really should have extended that lease earlier and I do regret not doing it, but unfortunately we got really clobbered by some adverse life events in the past few years and I just didn't have any bandwidth with all the different plates I was spinning 😬 I think if anyone has had experience of being a working mum and having a spouse have a mental breakdown then you will understand that inevitably some plates are going to get dropped.
To be honest the flat is perfectly adequate for a family of three and would be even better if we got more creative with storage space and switched up the decor. I still think it's a good price for the area and square footage, and I feel like we have been quite pragmatic compared to some of the other sellers in the locality if Zoopla is anything to go by! Almost identical flat a few roads away just came on the market at £300,000 with filthy walls and a CARPETED BATHROOM. In 2023!!!

Congratulations on accepting the offer and being able to move ahead with your life

YukoandHiro · 09/08/2023 16:17

ShimmyingThroughTheChaos · 09/08/2023 10:09

Average cost of a new bathroom in London is now around £6000. Incidentally that's the same amount we've been quoted to renew the lease! You could also easily drop several grand on replacing manky carpets or splintering wooden floors unless you are really handy and can do these things yourself.

Sorry to warn you it's waaaay more than that. The lowest quote we could get for an en suite (not a family bathroom) was £10k

PerfectYear321 · 13/08/2023 22:38

ShimmyingThroughTheChaos · 09/08/2023 10:09

Average cost of a new bathroom in London is now around £6000. Incidentally that's the same amount we've been quoted to renew the lease! You could also easily drop several grand on replacing manky carpets or splintering wooden floors unless you are really handy and can do these things yourself.

It's probably more like £10K tbh

Stormyforcast · 13/08/2023 22:50

i'd sell now. the market is only going one way. (down)

stevalnamechanger · 13/08/2023 23:09

Personally I'd sell if you can afford to take the hit

Its not a great time for flats , leasehold is becoming increasingly unpopular

overdalexx · 14/08/2023 11:09

RudsyFarmer · 08/08/2023 18:21

I think I’d accept that as so many people have moved out of London and I think the WFH culture is well bedded in now and the social life that used to exist just isn’t the same draw anymore.

I can't offer advice on the OP's question but just to say that I'm not at all sure you are right in that. The tubes and public transport are crowded again - TFL figures put them at well towards pre pandemic I think. Not all those folk crowded around me are tourists.

RudsyFarmer · 14/08/2023 11:12

overdalexx · 14/08/2023 11:09

I can't offer advice on the OP's question but just to say that I'm not at all sure you are right in that. The tubes and public transport are crowded again - TFL figures put them at well towards pre pandemic I think. Not all those folk crowded around me are tourists.

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If I’m wrong i’m glad to be wrong as it’s sad to see these great cities slowly fade.

overdalexx · 14/08/2023 11:23

RudsyFarmer · 14/08/2023 11:12

If I’m wrong i’m glad to be wrong as it’s sad to see these great cities slowly fade.

Show quote history

this is the story/figures I was thinking of, though there have been others.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66451211

While it's true that there is a bit of a lean towards the weekends in that recovery I can't help but think that a lot of those weekenders are still coming into the centre from bits of London, albeit maybe working from home for one or two days. There's a lot of free/cheap stuff to do in london but not quite so enticing if you were training it in from the south coast or wherever.

Tube passenger numbers at 85% of pre-Covid levels, says TfL

Events like Harry Styles at Wembley have helped numbers on some weekends hit pre-pandemic levels.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66451211