Please advise me on the value of spending money on these things for my new house...

[Leftoverssandwich]

House is a five bedroom detached house in a very hard water area in England. Old house with a modern extension, surveys say in pretty solid condition.

1. Heat source pump - current boiler is perfectly functional
2. Solar panels
3. Water softener

Thank you!

The water softener is the cheapest of these, it does really protect your appliances from limescale. We have an ASHP and just about to get solar installed, you get the most out of these if you have both tbh, so I wouldn't see it as an either/or. Are you doing any other renovation work? Eg underfloor heating? Do you have an electric car?

No other work required at all thankfully, so it's just this discretionary spend (and we would probably start with the softener and work up in price).

Just curious as to whether they are thought worth doing.

We don't currently have an electric car although plan to get one once the current one is done on its lease term.

We lived in a rental with an ASHP and interested to know how it works together with the solar panels?

I don't have experience of the others, but would echo every thread I've ever seen on here that says 100% for the water softener - reduces the housework and protects appliances.

Depends how old and leaky the house is. Heat pumps work best in houses with good insulation and underfloor heating or massive radiators.

Can’t comment on the water softener personally but I live in a hard water area and everyone who has one locally raves about it and says it extends the life of their appliances.

The house isn't leaky but doesn't have underfloor heating. It felt warm when we viewed it on a cold day and the survey didn't raise any concerns, but I don't know much more than that. EPC is D though so not stellar.

Water softener is a real priority for me after living in a rental without one in the same area. Pleased to see no naysayers so far as I have high hopes for that one!

Solar +Ashp is a good combination as ashp uses electricity to boost the energy that it captures from the air to heat water and heat the house. We have a big house and both of these have cost about £15k, so are not cheap options. But we have an electric car, will be installing ufh in a renovation, we had decent insulation and our gas boiler was 40 years old so all that combined made sense to us and protects our renovations from needing to be redone at a later date.

Thank you. I'll look into it more. We are in a conservation area so the solar panels may not be a runner.

A few things to know re water softeners:

They are excellent for your skin and your appliances. You will need to use far less laundry detergent and fewer cleaning chemicals.

The softened water has a slightly higher level of salt in it than normal tap water. It is within the safe level for most people, but you should not make up baby bottles with it, nor should people with high blood pressure drink it. For this reason you should consider installing it so that it bypasses the kitchen cold tap.

Get a block salt softener, and install it in a convenient location on the ground floor, not in the loft next to the cistern. Two of my dc are at uni, but when we have a full house we need to refill the salt roughly monthly. It would be a pain to have to lug a heavy sack of loose pellets, or to have to go up to the loft, each time. It also needs to be somewhere you can notice that the salt is running low. (Unless of course you buy one of the all-singing, all-dancing models that communicate with your phone and tell you to refill it. Unnecessary IMO.)

But, important warning: if your house, and therefore your plumbing, is old, installing a softener for the first time could cause serious problems. The softened water will gradually strip away all the limescale in the pipes. Limescale which may have been blocking leaks. It's a risk you take if you do not know the condition of your pipes and joints. Our house is 1980s, and we had no leaks from it, and IIRC it took our softener 6-8 weeks to remove the limestone from our cold tank.

Thank you. The plumbing is modern thankfully as the system was all revamped when the extension was done. At least, we know the pipes to the bathrooms must be new(ish). But really helpful to know we need to check - our intention is to get specialist plumbers in to advise us on the best system for us so hopefully they would alert us to any major concerns with the suitability of the plumbing.

I'd do them in reverse order to what you have listed. Softener first because it will protect your appliances, I'd then do the work to see if the cost/benefit for solar panels is worth it. The heat source pump I'd leave for a bit, I think the jury is still out on their efficiency and effectiveness.

Yes. The softener is definitely first. Probably listed last as it’s the one I have fewest reservations about!

We had an ASHP in a 3-storey stone house on a 100sq m footprint. We didn't install solar panels as the French govt didn't give grants and the cost of a bank loan was more than the revenue gained.

However, I have an underactive thyroid and am cold a lot of the year. We had a 4-oven electric Aga and our new oil boiler hardly ever cut in. We had the large cast iron radiators from the 50s, the age of the house.

Not lived in the house for over 5 years, but the total electricity bill was never more than 2000€, except for when we had a dodgy supply and only 180V. Do make sure that your voltage is correct. If you're at the end of the network as we were, not only can it double your bill, but it can wreck your pump. Repairs aren't cheap.

Thank you. I would have no idea about where we’d be in the network other than we’re in the middle of a village so if it’s something related to being physically remote it’s unlikely to apply.

Yes to the water softener but like a PP said be prepared to replace all pipes as they may have pin prick holes in them, sealed with limescale which will open up when the water is softener causing leaks, ceilings to be replaced etc etc.

Learn from my mistake.

+1 about the warning of softened water on the rest of your plumbing, we had loads of leaks after a while of using it.

Living in an old house with a Ground Source Heat Pump, I wouldn't go down that route unless you have under-floor heating. Really to be most effective heat pumps need much improved insulation and under-floor heating.

Reason being that heat-pumps are much better at generating warm water than really hot water. Warm water works well for under-floor heating - as effectively you have a room-size radiator on the floor. If you don't have under-floor heating you will probably need much larger radiators and likely need to operate the heat pump outside its optimal zone.

I’d not do any of those things personally.

We have just spend 2 yrs renovating a derelict property and have looked into ALL these things and more. Reviewing a great deal, getting advice from trades and specialist in the fields. These were my findings, but I'm far from any expert on any of them-sorry this is long!

1. Air source heat pumps- work ok in new builds with walls 30cm thick with insulation. Don't work well in cold weather and will then kick in using other energy sources to make up the short fall. Plus they are noisy! We have retrofitted insulation, now have double glazing, underfloor heating etc and were advised that it would still be efficient.

2. Solar panels- Do you have a garage or somewhere not noticeable from the street to put them? There seems to be multiple cowboy companies around doing panels- so get lots of advice. They degrade within years and won't pull as much electric in years 5 as in year 1. The pay back to the electric board is no where near as lucrative as it was 5/10yrs ago. We are still investigating this and whether we get them.

3. Water Softener- YES. We had 3/4 companies come out. There are 2, broad types. Electric and not and duel tank (my description/terms may not be 100% correct!).
   
   The electric will cleanse itself daily- regardless of how much water has passed through it. So if you are away, not using the whole amount in 1 softener tank etc- it will still continue to do a wash cycle daily regardless- plus use electricity and water to do so
   The non-electric cleanse will only do this cycle when X amount of water has passed through.

It depends on your household. If you are a large family and likely to use the amount per day, then an electric version might suit best. We are just 2, in a large house, with a large capacity machine for when we have guests. For us, a non-electric version was best.

Think about the size of hopper that holds the salt. For a large family, we were told that it might need refilling every 1-2 weeks. IF you have a utility or space other than just under a sink-get the largest hopper you can. Fill and forget IMO. Needing to fill it weekly is bonkers!

Another consideration is type of salt. You can buy compressed, pebble type salt at many places and some companies have larger, compressed brick types. This was my experience of 3 companies I recall:

Harveys: Woefully, outdated sales demonstration of how hard the water was (which we already knew!), wouldn't even quote for a large hopper despite multiple requests and came with their specific salt block- shaped to ONLY fit THEIR machines! Therefore tied to buying their own ones forever.

Kinetico- We ended up going with them as they offered a massive hopper option, a non- electric version and we put compressed, general salt in it that we buy from anywhere.

Monarch- You can buy models from screwfix etc, but from memory most it not all are the electric versions. I cant recall what salt they take.

4- Wind turbine- Yes, I also looked into a small one as we are coastal. Overall it would have been 20yrs to break even- so we don't have one! 😁

I have a mains water softener and it's excellent

I'd never drink the tap water though. I have a mains Bibo water filter machine which I rent for £25 a month and have done for years. So if you go down that route , bibo is the best - although of course the Qooker tap would be better but £££

I think ASHP don't work at all before rating C (you lose heat faster than it can replace it) and aren't really comfortable below B. You'd be better adding take house to A or B rating with modern insulation and windows into the list before heat pump.

Water softeners are great, but you may want to have it plumbed so that a kitchen tap does not go through the softener, as some have said most softeners are not suitable for drinking water particularly for babies. I think there are now some that are safe but check carefully.

I forgot to say that our kitchen tap is 3 way to include a filtered, non-softened feed for drinking. We also have one upstairs in our en-suite. Its brilliant and saves you going downstairs in the night for a drink. Yes, majority of people can drink softened water, but our are is SO heavy in lime, that I can taste the difference and don't like it.

Thanks so much to all of you that have commented.

I will definitely be getting a variety of quotes/opinions. I was going to say that the benefit of being in a hard water area is a profusion of water softener offerings but of course there is. Doh.

Very helpful info on AHSPs too, and solar panels. Clearly potentially NOT the right things for us.

Water softeners/conditioners help extend the life of clothing, you use less detergents, and better for your skin and hair.

Solar panels- Do you have a garage or somewhere not noticeable from the street to put them? There seems to be multiple cowboy companies around doing panels- so get lots of advice. They degrade within years and won't pull as much electric in years 5 as in year 1. The pay back to the electric board is no where near as lucrative as it was 5/10yrs ago. We are still investigating this and whether we get them.

Have solar panels - no noticeable reduction in output over 11 years - slight variations between years driven by say a very sunny March etc. we have just added a battery and you save 20% vat on battery if installed same time as panels. There’s a company called Otovo which lets you enter your postcode and address and it’s takes your house location and direction to suggest Solar output and costs.