Buying a house with a boundary issue

dontlookgottalook · 2023-03-22T21:26:26+00:00

We are going through a house purchase, and I've just found out via a friend that our vendors have extended their garden onto a bit of 'spare land' at the back of the house that sits between a group of houses. They've built a large shed on it. It turns out this bit of land is owned by someone, although they are no longer able to access it. Should I mention this to the solicitor? I'm not sure what to do. I'm worried this could hold things up if I do.

Itsybitsytitsy · 22/03/2023 21:33

Following

FUSoftPlay · 22/03/2023 21:36

How long have they occupied the land? I’d be looking at adverse possession, but you need fo do the application before you purchase.

Original poster

dontlookgottalook · 22/03/2023 21:41

@FUSoftPlay that's a good question - I'm not sure. I suspect a while, but I will ask if my friend knows. They are just a couple of doors down. Is there a length of time that it should have been there to do this?

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carriedout · 22/03/2023 21:47

I would definitely tell my solicitor and want this resolved.

Snugglemonkey · 22/03/2023 21:49

Honestly, this type of thing would be really off putting. Definitely ask for it to be resolved before exchange.

PyjamasForBreakfast · 22/03/2023 21:55

The rules on adverse possession changed over a decade ago so now it is something like after 10 years if someone applies to have the land they stole changed over to their name, Land Registry notify the proper owner who then has 2 years to rectify the situation to get their land back.

How much does that extra land with the shed mean in terms of garden size? ie if you were to lose it back to the owner how much would it affect how much you want the house?

Never forget that not everyone is reasonable, stable and understanding. Sometimes neighbours are fucking lunatics who hold a grudge and do everything they can to upset and unsettle you especially if they feel you have pissed them off. I would be asking specific questions about the garden through your solicitor. Proceed if you want to after that. I wouldn't want the potential issue.

Original poster

dontlookgottalook · 22/03/2023 21:56

DP would rather wait to see if it comes up. I'll see what the surveyor comes back with first before we decide. Thanks all.

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Original poster

dontlookgottalook · 22/03/2023 21:58

PyjamasForBreakfast · 22/03/2023 21:55

The rules on adverse possession changed over a decade ago so now it is something like after 10 years if someone applies to have the land they stole changed over to their name, Land Registry notify the proper owner who then has 2 years to rectify the situation to get their land back.

How much does that extra land with the shed mean in terms of garden size? ie if you were to lose it back to the owner how much would it affect how much you want the house?

Never forget that not everyone is reasonable, stable and understanding. Sometimes neighbours are fucking lunatics who hold a grudge and do everything they can to upset and unsettle you especially if they feel you have pissed them off. I would be asking specific questions about the garden through your solicitor. Proceed if you want to after that. I wouldn't want the potential issue.

It's a biggish shed. So it adds a fair bit. Apparently the owner of the land is very amenable to selling it as he cannot access it. I'm more worried about holding things up.

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SeasonFinale · 22/03/2023 22:00

As part of the purchase the solicitor should ask you to confirm that the boundary as outlined on the land registry plan is what you expect it to be. If you did that and then there was an issue later you would have no recourse to the solicitor if there turned out to be a costly boundary dispute.

As someone else said if this land wasn't included would you still want to go ahead.

As a former litigation solicitor sort this out properly before purchase!

carriedout · 22/03/2023 22:02

I'm more worried about holding things up. Oh god, don't put time ahead of getting it properly sorted. Try to be sensible.

pompei8309 · 22/03/2023 22:04

dontlookgottalook · 22/03/2023 21:41

@FUSoftPlay that's a good question - I'm not sure. I suspect a while, but I will ask if my friend knows. They are just a couple of doors down. Is there a length of time that it should have been there to do this?

If they’re couple of doors down how does that interfere with your boundary? is not problem really

carriedout · 22/03/2023 22:09

pompei8309 · 22/03/2023 22:04

If they’re couple of doors down how does that interfere with your boundary? is not problem really

Show quote history

The friend who told them is a couple of doors down.

The claimed piece of land is adjacent. It creates a query over the property boundary.

Original poster

dontlookgottalook · 22/03/2023 22:27

SeasonFinale · 22/03/2023 22:00

As part of the purchase the solicitor should ask you to confirm that the boundary as outlined on the land registry plan is what you expect it to be. If you did that and then there was an issue later you would have no recourse to the solicitor if there turned out to be a costly boundary dispute.

As someone else said if this land wasn't included would you still want to go ahead.

As a former litigation solicitor sort this out properly before purchase!

Thanks @SeasonFinale we haven't gotten to that form yet. Interestingly, if I had filled out that form just a few days I would have said all was as expected as I hadn't noticed anything. I just thought it was a longer garden than the immediate neighbour. Now I have looked on the land registry and Google satellite and I can see it.

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Original poster

dontlookgottalook · 22/03/2023 22:30

carriedout · 22/03/2023 22:02

I'm more worried about holding things up. Oh god, don't put time ahead of getting it properly sorted. Try to be sensible.

Thank you! I am losing my mind a bit with this sale and purchase. I swore I would never do it again after the last time..

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FUSoftPlay · 23/03/2023 07:22

PyjamasForBreakfast · 22/03/2023 21:55

The rules on adverse possession changed over a decade ago so now it is something like after 10 years if someone applies to have the land they stole changed over to their name, Land Registry notify the proper owner who then has 2 years to rectify the situation to get their land back.

How much does that extra land with the shed mean in terms of garden size? ie if you were to lose it back to the owner how much would it affect how much you want the house?

Never forget that not everyone is reasonable, stable and understanding. Sometimes neighbours are fucking lunatics who hold a grudge and do everything they can to upset and unsettle you especially if they feel you have pissed them off. I would be asking specific questions about the garden through your solicitor. Proceed if you want to after that. I wouldn't want the potential issue.

I have done an adverse possession claim recently and hadn’t heard of the two year rule? Is that for registered land as it’s certainly not the case for unregistered land.

Luckydip1 · 23/03/2023 07:31

I would ask the seller to sort out, and then in the meantime keep looking at places. This could turn out to be a real headache.

PyjamasForBreakfast · 23/03/2023 07:40

@FUSoftPlay yes registered land, the OP states the vendor has taken land owned by someone but they can no longer access it and is amenable to selling it. They used to leave strips between the fences of gardens backing on to each other. This claiming of land has happened quite a lot.

FUSoftPlay · 23/03/2023 07:59

The OP doesn’t say whether it’s registered and I’d hazard a guess it isn’t given the nature of the land.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land/practice-guide-4-adverse-possession-of-registered-land#making-an-application-for-registration-on-the-basis-of-adverse-possession

It’s 65 days notice, not two years - I didn’t think it has changed.

I think you are thinking of upgrading from possessory to absolute title. Adverse possession would get you possessory title. Which can be upgraded to absolute after 12 years provided nobody else claims the land - which the original owner (with right to absolute title) could do.

If the owner of the land is aware then it would be better to negotiate a sale at the same time.

Your lender would need to be aware and won’t be happy that if you’re intent on occupying land that isn’t yours, they will likely require it’s rectified prior to purchase.

Practice guide 4: adverse possession of registered land

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land/practice-guide-4-adverse-possession-of-registered-land#making-an-application-for-registration-on-the-basis-of-adverse-possession

2bazookas · 23/03/2023 08:03

You need to tell your solicitor ASAP and pause the sale until the vendors sort it out. (Don't worry, they won't be able to sell it to anyone else meanwhile).

It's an open-ended legal liability that could cost you a fortune.

If it was all easily resolvable the vendors would not have concealed this from you. The dishonest concealment is a heavy hint they know there's a deep legal shit hole at the end of the garden and are selling it to escape.

Ndd135632 · 23/03/2023 08:04

Get it sorted OP. It will come back to bite you.

2bazookas · 23/03/2023 08:07

dontlookgottalook · 22/03/2023 21:41

@FUSoftPlay that's a good question - I'm not sure. I suspect a while, but I will ask if my friend knows. They are just a couple of doors down. Is there a length of time that it should have been there to do this?

You can quickly look on right move to see when the property was last sold.

FUSoftPlay · 23/03/2023 08:16

dontlookgottalook · 22/03/2023 21:41

@FUSoftPlay that's a good question - I'm not sure. I suspect a while, but I will ask if my friend knows. They are just a couple of doors down. Is there a length of time that it should have been there to do this?

It’s 10 years but it has to be without the owners consent, if he’s aware of it you can’t claim adverse possession as he’s consenting by allowing the status quo.

That leaves you with two options really, the owner rectifies it and restore the land and their physical boundary to match the title plan or looks to purchase the extra land and sells both parcels to you.

C4tastrophe · 23/03/2023 09:44

Surely the answer is get the seller to fix this?
Return the garden boundary to the correct position and put a fence up. Shed stays on the disputed ground where it’s ‘lost’ or they move it into the garden, or disposed of it.

ReadersD1gest · 23/03/2023 09:50

dontlookgottalook · 22/03/2023 21:58

It's a biggish shed. So it adds a fair bit. Apparently the owner of the land is very amenable to selling it as he cannot access it. I'm more worried about holding things up.

Show quote history

How and why can't he access it? It sounds very odd that someone was allowed to build all around his land without leaving him access?
If it's the seller who's told you he's amenable to selling, I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

Original poster

dontlookgottalook · 23/03/2023 10:04

Thanks all for your helpful comments.
@ReadersD1gest it was at the back of his house and he has since moved. The land is fenced in by houses. It's quite a small plot of land.

The additional complication is that the plot of land has a WW2 bomb shelter and we think that the owners thought it was council owned because of this. They have built the shed on top of the shelter, so it is quite high as the shelter is not completely underground.

I've looked on land registry and it is still owned by this person. I will have to ask the solicitor to contact them.

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