Advice on kitchen plan - breakfast bar or kitchen table?

[Starrynight0]

I'd love some thoughts and advice on our new kitchen design. We're particularly undecided on whether to incorporate a breakfast bar or whether a small kitchen table would be better (no room for both).

I've attached a rough plan for each (ignore the detail, just trying to decide which overall layout is best). I've drawn in a table and breakfast bar roughly but these aren't to scale. We wouldn't have wall units along that bit of the kitchen.

I love the idea of a breakfast bar but was concerned something only big enough for two people would look a bit silly and a table would be better.

On the other hand a table may look too bulky and squashed in, and partially block the route from the hallway to the conservatory/garden. (We are changing the layout so need to use our imaginations a bit here - there is currently no kitchen where the American FF / larder units are, the whole space is a dining area.)

Any thoughts??

Thanks! What exactly do you mean by Drw/bench?

I think an american FF would stick out too much in the location you've drawn it, but if we switched to a 'standard' fridge it could go there.

I'd say I'm more of a hob-pot cook than a big oven user but it varies...

And I think a round table might be better overall in that space

I agree

Table every time, also re the American fridge freezer, do they do a 450 larder? I think looks better balanced with an equal unit either side, rather than a 600 and a 300. If you can even your units up like that anywhere, it will make your kitchen look heaps better.

Don’t worry about the fridge being over there, we have a similar layout and actually walk further than that around our table and it works well. Formal table I n the living room will never get used and is old fashioned if you sell. Can you steal any space from the living room to make the kitchen dining bigger and living room just that? But that involved moving walls.

Agree with all the pps that the fridge needs to be closer rather than on the other side of the kitchen. Ideally, you need a working triangle of cooking-sink-chiller to create an optimal workflow.
Could be an option to have a couple of under counter fridges with an overhanging work surface. This would create a breakfast bar area which would also leave enough space for a small table.
Also agree with the idea of a round table.

That layout needs work.

Your crucial triangle is the sink, cooker, fridge. If one is far away from the other you're creating needless traffic through the kitchen.

How about the fridge where the washing machine is, the washing machine where the hob is (very small amount of pipe to move), and the hob in the 600mm unit next to the oven?

I'd caution against the washing machine/whatever plumbing being moved to an internal wall. We did this and it has a long run under the floorboards to the drains outside. Was great for the first 5 years, then had a tendency to get clogged up and unclogging is a nightmare under the floorboards for several metres.

Definitely a round table for meals, much more flexible.

I might tweak your plan like this

H = hob in the centre because otherwise it will always look off

F = fridge near your main cooking triangle. Could be high with a cupboard above or there are some very cool under-the-counter fridges with drawers which work well.

L = larder
Fz = freezer
W = washing machine & dryer (stacked)

Put larder, freezer & washing all within a big built in cupboard with some sound insulation so you don't hear the machines and it looks neat when the doors are closed. As long as you don't have solid concrete floors, it is probably not hard to get the plumbing there.

Table 1000%
I hate sitting up high
And if / when you have children they can't sit around the breakfast bar

Check out Kitchinsider videos on you tube, he's a kitchen designer and has videos on pretty much every aspect of kitchen design. I've found his videos so helpful.

You've got so much more usable worktop in the first plan. I'd definitely go with no.1 for that reason. A kitchen without a long run of worktop is such a pain. Aside from the fact that a table is much more useful than a breakfast bar.

Table every time! I would swap the cupboards either side of the F/F - assuming that both cupboards are floor to ceiling.

Id remove the wall radiator and have a built in bench seating and table with two chairs. Bench can have flip lid so you can store cushions etc in it. Whether you have it in the corner or just on the back wall. And, its butted against the wall, so will give you some precious room to play with 👍

are you really fixed on double oven? I’ve had a play on the diy kitchen planner and I would do something like the attached. The peninsular would contain dishwasher, washing machine, sink and bin unit and narrow depth units other side for storage and with an overhang would create space for bar stool seating.
you don’t lose as much space in corners from cupboards

tall cupboards one broom, one larder.

space for dining table and I would put some other cabinets over side of room for storage and to tie whole room together.

I'm probably going to sound like a broken record, but I wouldn't go for a design that doesn't have a long run of worktop, preferably near where you cook. I've moved from a house with a kitchen we designed to one that was badly designed. The prep space either side of the hob is only 600mm and it does my head in. The kitchen isn't very old, but I think we'll end up having to replace it just for lack of worktop.

So much time in a kitchen is preparing food, so space (and light) to do that, without having to take everything across a room should always be a starting point.

We have a table in the dining room so a breakfast bar in the kitchen. I think one table is sufficient and I prefer the extra bench space in the kitchen.

You need the table to unload stuff from the fridge!
I agree with a pp re American FF's being not the most efficient use of that amount of bulk.

I have mine in the utility room off the kitchen and it is not an issue but I do have a counter beside it to put stuff on as it comes out of or goes into the fridge.

I would have the breakfast bar as kids are only little for a short time. What about making the conservatory into dining room so you can have a sofa in the kitchen and make it more of a family room. The living room could then not have a table so that end could be come a children's play area long term

I think you need to avail yourself of free kitchen planning. We used ikea and wren and eventually got the perfect layout.

Round table definitely needed - ours extends to a large oval but most of the time seats 4 very generously.

We had an American FF. I absolutely loved it (it was plumbed in so ice & water too ). But. They dominate the room and are very very expensive to run. Very. I now have a tall integrated fridge and a freezer in the utility. Much better.

I hate hate hate sitting at breakfast bars

I don't mind them visually they are just useless to me

Is your conservatory large enough for a table?

We eat at our island far more often than on our table…….but, youngest dc is 13 and our island fits 4 people comfortably. Foregoing a table for a breakfast bar that seats two is pointless and will be extremely impractical down the road. So if your conservatory doesn’t fit a table and you want to eat in the kitchen rather than the living room, you have to go for the table option.

Breakfast bar not for eating at but they are great for worktop space.

Personally I would go for the U-shaped layout you have in the first diagram (means everything is within easy reach, but add the breakfast bar too. Then you won't need the two larder units in the table area, and you can rotate the table 90 degrees from your diagram.

I think that would leave a very narrow gap (less than 1m) to get into/out of the u-shape which I don't think would work well?

Thanks for having a play on the planner! But you've extended our kitchen width by about 1m! The width is just under 2.5m.

Both of these designs were actually from Wren (we just only have a proper plan for the non-breakfast bar one). We've also had designs from Howdens, Magnet and Benchmarx who all put the fridge in the same location.