How to insulate an Edwardian House properly

[RoseAddict]

We have a drafty Edwardian end of terrace which is hard to heat. We tend to rely heavily on a log burner which we love but the more we read about it the more we realise we must make some changes and use it less. Last year we tried using the central heating more but we can’t really afford it, the house never gets very warm without the log burner on and this year the gas situation is frankly terrifying.

The loft is insulated a bit with that awful glass fibre stuff. There’s about 10cm in there with boards over it and loads of stuff I’m storing for a family member.

We have an original front door which we have worked on draft proofing but os basically still very drafty.

We have double glazing which is ok- last year we replaced the worst offending windows that were very badly fitting and didn’t close properly.

The wall on the detached side gets very cold. The cupboard under the stairs blows a gale in to the hall.

We are trying to think where to start. We don’t have loads of money to spare but could borrow if it were really going to make a difference.

We need to replace the downstairs floors, should we do underfloor insulation? Should we insist family member takes back the stuff from the loft and then triple the insulation up there? Should we look into external wall insulation (probably too ££ and problematic but we want to look at all options).

We could spend a couple of K right off or save up or borrow to do a bigger job if we really feel it’s worth doing.

We are not in a conservation area so have a reasonable amount of freedom wrt external insulation etc. House is currently pebbledashed so to take that off and insulate the outside wouldn’t be as sacrilegious as if we had pristine red bricks.

Or we could move! Would rather not move though

Our walls don’t breathe either as they are pebbledashed on the outside and some kind of rock hard grey cement plaster on the inside that I think was applied when the house was underpinned 20 years ago. In some places we have a bit of gypsum and even some original lime plaster in one room but overall no breathing.

Our estate is really lovely and nicer than some conservation areas but because it isn’t one people have done aaaallll sorts of renders and paint jobs on the lovely red bricks so at least it won’t look odd or incongruous if we do get EWI. One house near us has brown roughly textured render on it my son used to laugh and say it was covered in bear poo I bet we could make ours look classier than that.

@CovidCorvid million dollar question! Well a few thousand pounds anyway. If anyone knows please let us know!! This government are aiming for maximum global warming aren’t they? so not unless there’s a change of government I should think

[quote RoseAddict]@CovidCorvid million dollar question! Well a few thousand pounds anyway. If anyone knows please let us know!! This government are aiming for maximum global warming aren’t they? so not unless there’s a change of government I should think[/quote]
I’ve been Googling and a few websites seem to think the green home grant will come back in a slightly different format as part of the spending Review. 🤷‍♀️

You can draft excluders strips that attach to the bottom of doorways to help with drafts.

Things like rugs will help too.

Grow some ivy up the outside wall. English heritage did a study not that long ago to see if growing ivy and other climbers damaged buildings - not only did they find they didn't but insulted the building in winter while helping to keep it cool in summer.

P.s don't forget to insulate hot water tank and pipes and put that reflective sheeting behind radiators

www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/18/how-to-make-old-homes-energy-efficient

Can I join in?
Do those of you who have had EWI fitted know if the external brickwork has to be in tip top condition prior to fitting? - mine isn't.
Also, does the external render need painting periodically, as that would be another costly add on with scaffolding etc?

Hi @RoseAddict I have found the doc.

It’s called an Energy Performance Certificate and you can apparently find then at gov.co.uk.

Ours is sitting at an E rating with the potential to be a C with the following changes:

• internal/external insulation - £4000-£14000

Saving potential £227 pa Will improve to D rating

• floor insulation - £4000-£6000

Saving potential £47 pa Will improve to D rating

• heating controls - £350-£450

Saving potential £147 pa Will improve to D rating

• solar water heating - £4000-£6000

Saving potential £31 pa Will improve to C rating

• solar panels 2.5 kwp - £3500-£5500

Saving potential £339 pa Will improve to C rating

So - all in all a LOT of cost for not much financial benefit, although over the years we will likely get some of it done. The report has assumed some stuff like the loft is uninsulated as are the cavity floors. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what the house is like to live in before we choose which bit to improve!

You can get loft stilts which means you can upgrade the loft insulation to recommended 270/300 mm and still use it for storage. Could just use them in one area , wouldn't have to do the whole thing?

@Bobsyer great thanks! I found our EPC in the meantime and it was similar. A lot of expense but the savings will be much greater now that the energy prices are increasing. Unfortunately that doesn’t make the expense any easier! But really I just want to be warm and not keep chucking heat/ money out of the walls.

@EenyMeenyMinyNo yes I did look into loft legs. Unwilling to DIY though and more expensive to have someone install than all the crap in the loft is worth! So decided against the raised storage for now

@Wingedharpy good point about painted render. I’d like to know this too

@TaraR2020 we don’t have any plumbing or tanks in the loft any more due to wonderful life changing pressurised plumbing system but good point for anyone who has

@Bobsyer

Hi *@RoseAddict* I have found the doc.

It’s called an Energy Performance Certificate and you can apparently find then at gov.co.uk.

Ours is sitting at an E rating with the potential to be a C with the following changes:

• internal/external insulation - £4000-£14000

Saving potential £227 pa Will improve to D rating

• floor insulation - £4000-£6000

Saving potential £47 pa Will improve to D rating

• heating controls - £350-£450

Saving potential £147 pa Will improve to D rating

• solar water heating - £4000-£6000

Saving potential £31 pa Will improve to C rating

• solar panels 2.5 kwp - £3500-£5500

Saving potential £339 pa Will improve to C rating

So - all in all a LOT of cost for not much financial benefit, although over the years we will likely get some of it done. The report has assumed some stuff like the loft is uninsulated as are the cavity floors. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what the house is like to live in before we choose which bit to improve!

This is the issue, it would take something like 50 years to recoup the cost of external insulation. How many people stay in the same house for 50 years, even 20 years is fairly unusual. Most people are going to prefer not to make the saving in fuel bills as long term they will save money. But obviously that doesn't help the environment.

@CovidCorvid

Has anyone who’s externally insulated their house give me an idea of price? Also have an Edwardian/Victorian house with no cavity wall. I can’t cope with the upheaval of internal.

Already got loads of loft insulation, double glazing and a composite front door. Loft hatch is a good idea. When people say loft ventilation do you mean one of those systems that circulates the air from the loft to the house? Doesn’t that ventilation make heating worse?

One of our issues is damp. I have to have the thermostat up one degree more than I’d ideally like otherwise we get terrible mould in the front room and bedrooms….on the external walls. Would external insulation help with this it make it worse?

We’re a red brick semi….is it going to look shit if we have it done and next door don’t?

@covidcorvid I've considered external/internal wall insulation, I am worried about thermal bridging, where the cold area around the windows causes damp. It might be best to speak to an expert?

I have a leaking front door, I'm finding that draft excluders help and a thermal door curtain.

I'm also considering adding more loft insulation, I've read it needs to be wool or hemp in older houses so they can breathe.

For anyone with lots of condensation on the windows or in the bathroom, Karcher window vacuums help. They are basically a mini water vacuum cleaner, my bathroom feels much drier with it and I'm hoping it will fix the moudly shower issue. I got the WV 6.

@RoseAddict
What council area do you live in? There may well be grant schemes. If you put your postcode in here it will tell you what schemes there are:

www.simpleenergyadvice.org.uk/grants

I'd recommend looking to the Energy Saving Trust for advice

I'd also look to see if there is a qualified heat geek in your area - they can take a look at your combined heating and insulation needs and design a system that would work for you
www.heatgeek.com/find-a-heat-geek/

If you are replacing the floor, then insulation is a no brainer but do some research to get the right type - is it a suspended timber floor?

It could also be worth considering underfloor heating at the same time, during the disruption - this is often much more.efficient than radiators as it allows for warmth consistently throughout a room rather than needing to get radiator boiling out to throw out enough heat to reach the other side. Water in underfloor heating does not need to be as hot as in a radiator for that reason and so it uses less energy while also meaning no cold spots in your room.

I'd deffo start with the loft. If the loft insulation is old and manky, it could be very compressed. Ours was. It had been squashed by falling 'torching' (a sort of plaster put on the underside of slates back in the day) which you often get on old roofs. We took it all out, fallen torching included, which was extremely messy and a mask job, and replaced with modern insulation, which is nicer to handle than fibreglass, and laid it much thicker as well- one layer filling between the rafters, then another layer laid crossways on top of that. Made a big difference for a fairly modest outlay. If you could get a grant, even better.

@RoseAddict

Our walls don’t breathe either as they are pebbledashed on the outside and some kind of rock hard grey cement plaster on the inside that I think was applied when the house was underpinned 20 years ago. In some places we have a bit of gypsum and even some original lime plaster in one room but overall no breathing.

Our estate is really lovely and nicer than some conservation areas but because it isn’t one people have done aaaallll sorts of renders and paint jobs on the lovely red bricks so at least it won’t look odd or incongruous if we do get EWI. One house near us has brown roughly textured render on it my son used to laugh and say it was covered in bear poo I bet we could make ours look classier than that.

We had three layers of horrible paint taken off the red bricks on a house, so it could breathe better. Also looked a hell of a lot better too.

@The8thMonth Gorgeous door! Do you mind my asking what company you used? Or was it a local joiner? Cheers!

Think carefully before looking at external wall insulation. We have been told we have to do it to part of our house (building inspector requirement). It affects windows, lighting and the roofline. If you're not doing those things at the same time then it can be a nightmare.

@MojoMoon thanks for the links. It doesn’t look like we have any grants available in our area (London)

Yes it’s a suspended timber floor. Flooring will certainly need replacing at some stage yes.

One thing I wonder about is is there any sense in doing EWI just on the side of the house? The front would be tricky to navigate all the stonework and the back already has a well insulated extension on the bottom half. We could do internal insulation on the back and front but the side only one small window so I would have thought a good candidate for EWI.

@BlueMongoose I’d love to get the old glass fibre stuff out. Can’t stand it! But it’s not in dreadful condition so I was planning to leave it.

@MojoMoon I’d absolutely love underfloor heating too! We have it in the extension and it’s blissful. Didn’t think it was an option with a suspended timber floor though. Wouldn’t it involve chopping the bottom off all the doors etc

If you don’t want to do any building work - consider a dehumidifier as dry air heats up quicker and also radiator fans which circulate the air and we have found make a difference.

@RoseAddict. You can put it between the joists so shouldn't mean lifting the floor and chopping door

www.theunderfloorheatingstore.com/confused/water-underfloor-heating-for-between-joists-or-suspended-floors