Buying a listed building?

[niceproblem]

We have seen a lovely house that seems perfect for us. It is well within budget, has been 'done' just enough for us to move straight in, but not so done that there's no scope for making some small changes according to our taste.

However, it's Grade II listed. I don't think there's anything structural that we would want to change but we would want to do things like get a new front door. I also don't know if buying a listed building has any implications for mortgage borrowing etc?

Do you live / have you lived in a listed building? Can you give me some idea of what to expect, pitfalls, positives? We really love the house but as FTBers don't want to take on anything insane!

We had a grade 1 listed building. It needed completely renovating. With grade 1 you can't even change the inside without permission. It took six months and eventually settling on 'plan D' but we were able to completely change the interior - placement of the bathroom and kitchen etc. It was hard but I'd do it all again. We doubled our money when we sold

Really interesting points, thank you, especially about getting to know the conservation officer. The stuff about it being cold made me laugh - our current house is freezing so we are well used to it!

Thankfully no thatch or similar - it's basically a 'standard' Georgian townhouse in the middle of a small town with converted basement and two rooms each on three further floors. There is nothing that we want to 'change' per se except as I said before some re-painting and removal of a couple of carpets. And sort the front door which has seen better days. But we are definitely committed to buying a period property and loving / respecting it as is, and not mucking around with it.

It's in a small conservation area and some of the other houses in the street are also listed although not all. I think 'ours' (haha) is mainly because of the historical connection rather than the building itself, iyswim, because the town is full of Georgian terraces! But obviously I know that doesn't change anything in practice.

Lots to think about and very exciting, if a wee bit daunting!

If it’s in great condition (and you Must have a thorough survey done) lots of the tales of woe won’t apply to you. Historic buildings officers are a funny bunch. Some can be so draconian they are very difficult to deal with. Others will work with you. Ask yours about the front door. Repair by a craftsmen is probably possible. If it’s the original door you might have to. If it’s not you might be allowed a new one. But obviously a period one for your house. It would be exceptionally bed luck to find the officer turns up and says everything in the house needs correcting. However do ascertain from the owners that Consent has been obtained for any work they have done. You will love the house.

Ours is listed, I’d buy listed again in a heartbeat, it’s listed dor a reason, it’s unique with gorgeous original features,

Don’t assume you can’t replace the front door, speak to thr planners ans they will help you create a plan.

The general rule is you can do anything cosmetic inside, inc replace bathroom kitchen etc ( unless it is original or was in place at time of listing, which is highly unlikely) and is on the original listing. You cannot remove or rip out original features, not without consent, and you can’t change the structure

Outside you need to keep it looking as it did originally. Again unless you have consent. And consent does happen, people extend etc

These homes need to be lived in, this is what the government wants, else they would go to ruin, but you are preserving it for historical interest, hence why you can’t be ripping out original shit or changing its appearance. If you want to do that, don’t buy a listed home.

If there has been any changes structurally, or new outbuildings Ie garage built check planning permission was given, we have both these things on ours, we bought like that and have the planning documentation.

Generally though, unless there is pictures of the inside dating back. No one knows what was in the house when, unless it’s one of many. Ours is a one off, so if we decided to rip shit out, no one would know it was ever there, but we would never do that.

We were in a grade 2 listed building and it was fine! You can do what you like internally within reason but doors and windows have to be the same. So they were a bugger and expensive as sizes have changed. It depends what you want though. For example we had to have a black door and it couldnt be fancy.

We're just about to replace the door on our G2 listed house. Conservation officer was chilled about it and even recommended a good design. It will be expensive though. We love living here but it's definitely not cheap to do proper work. Redecorating etc is fine. We previously had permission for some fairly big internal changes and again, no planning problems. They have so much character, I'd go for it.

Glad to see you have had some balanced responses.

I bought a Grade 2 years ago. I went and had a chat to the Conservation Officer beforehand and a friend’s husband who was a builder. Both put me at ease about it. Unfortunately a lot of owners have put plastic double glazing in recently and I can’t understand why it hasn’t been noticed as the council officers are only about 1/2 mile up the street now.
They will/ should give you a list of things that you must ask permission and it depends on the house. Ours is part of a terrace of Victorian houses built by a wonderful business man. They are a lovely brick and the row around the corner were part of it. The doors are oak? And painted, very traditional. I don’t live in it because I bought it with one of my sons. If you like old houses and their features it won’t really be a problem. Ours is just the exterior some are interior features too. Ask to see the details aNd make your mind up from that.

Hello,

Recognise this is an old thread but posting on here in case anyone pics it up and because some of the listed house groups on Facebook are scary places! We are looking into making an offer on a grade 2 listed house in Somerset, but just trying to do a bit of due diligence before we go ahead with a survey etc. Does anyone know how much of an issue it is if you inherit a property with a few things that were done without consent? I understand there are a few routes a) redo b) get listed consent retrospectively c) leave as is if you don’t think it’s going to cause an issue for resale. This house has a couple of issues that have been flagged to us (by estate agent upon probing). One is to do with replacement of windows that apparently didn’t have permission. Though I can see some planning permission on the portal for some windows (maybe not all) and from what we can see they’re very well done exact wooden replicas of existing sash windows just with double glazing.

The two other things relate to an extension that was put in. The extension was approved but looks like they went ahead with removal of a wall which wasn’t recommended with listing consent, same applies (or similar) for an old door that was closed up. It seems they tried to do things relatively well and I don’t think future owners would contest this as it’s a much better use of space but I’m just not sure the implications.

The estate agent said we could talk to the architect to understand how likely we are to get retrospective planning for these issues.

my parents have a grade 2 listed house and everyone in their area (Bath) seems to have things like this with their houses which they leave unaddressed. Understand that’s not by the book at all but just trying to get a bit of a balanced view on it.

thanks!

Whether the changes would be allowed is very dependent on the local listed buildings team at the council so no one will be able to tell you unless they live near you and have a listed building.
The potential issue is that if you ask the council and they say no, you will have to put things back to how they were. Also, if the pics on the for sale listing show the changes, the council or a "helpful" neighbour might notice them and enforce things to be put back.

In your shoes, I would get quotes for putting everything back to how it should be and ask for a reduction in house price to match. And then you are covered financially at least.

Thanks very much. Yes that makes sense. I get the impression they already spoke to the council at least about the opening and they weren’t keen on it as it’s documented in an architect summary. The estate agent did suggest we could talk to the architect but not sure how much clarity that would give us. Good idea re getting a quote. The house has been on for a while and already dropped 75k in price so just trying to figure out what’s a reasonable discount to take into account some of these risks. Thanks for your reply

Now 4 years on from my original post and based on our experience we would never buy a listed building again.
Every man and his dog has some input and interference, several from the council and often one or two from Historic England etc.
A basic planning change has cost us £15000 and a Bore hole at about another £3000. Countless on site meetings you pay for a planning consultant and architect and the council roll up and ask to adjourn as they now want another Bod in attendance! Needed another Bat survey as ours was two years old, if you had the basic idea of a bat then our building is not suitable for them as a 5 minute walk around would tell you but they insist on dusk to dark surveys etc.
Finding builders well thats another story, we have a professional report from a member of this that and the other and it basically a list of what you should never do to a stone building he was just clue less.
You mention double glazing well I doubt they would allow that, remember if buy it you can be made to return all the items back to how they should be.
Maintenance
If its large its a full time job.
This book is fantastic

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/threads/the-warm-dry-home-new-peter-ward-book.17530/

I feel your pain @Funf. I think with listed buildings you have to love them exactly the way they are when you buy them and accept that any changes will probably not be approved. Tbh there is usually enough blimin repairs to keep you busy for several decades anyway!

You don't buy a listed house to live in it, you buy it so that you can look after it, and help preserve it for future generations.

I'd you go into in with that mindset, then the cost and aggravation will be easier to live with.

Thanks for your feedback. Sorry to hear it’s a pain!! Is this because you’re trying to make changes or are they just asking you to do these things out of no where?? We don’t really want to change anything major about this house, it’s more a case of not wanting to need to reinstate the issues that we know were done without explicit consent. Definitely need to look into it more. The horror stories are putting me off for sure but we love it and it’s such a good fit otherwise

Unlike planning contraventions, there is no time limit on when enforcement action can be taken by a Council with respect to unauthorised works to Listed Buildings.
The current owner is held responsible and can be forced to rectify the issues. Ultimately it is a criminal offense, subject to high fines.
I doubt whether a property would sell with outstanding LB issues - at least of the purchaser/solicitor had done due diligence.
It's not something that you can get indemnity insurance for either.

It was a school for about 50 years
Then a workshop for the next 320 years
It was change of use to a house and a small modern extension as they wanted it to be visibly different.
Not one thing was easy, it's a typical case of they would rather it fall down than someone fix it and use it.
Both the stone mason and roofer who wanted to do the restoration have now retired as it took so long.
The council never stick to the published time scales but you cannot bring them to task.
We had storm damage well three slates fell off we should have really got permission to replace the slates but we had to do it as an emergency repair to avoid a paper chase and weeks of the rain coming in.
We keep a stock of stone and matching slate in the garden.
Luckily we can do most jobs in the family so the maintenance hasn't been too bad for us.
No signs or smells of damp as we keep it dry inside and well ventilated.
Now after 5 years it will be sold with full planning to convert to a house, its a great location and would make a great family home or two apartments but we are at the stage in life when we want easier battles.
As an example a local listed building has double glazing and plastic gutters both of which it shouldn't have but as no one from the council checked they have got away with it but one day a random Busy Body can interfere and next thing the owner has a £40,000 + bill
Just keep looking as plenty are around that are very nice but unlisted and far cheaper to maintain.
Peter Ward is the best man for a survey, not cheap but look at his videos on youtube. We followed his advice and we have no damp etc and cost very little to achieve.
First builder who mentions Tanking, Cement, concrete Damp membrane etc show them the door.

Just to add another thing as soon as it was bought the council sent a photographer out to photograph it incase we changed anything, that was the only thing that was quick, luckily the surrounding people tipped us off.

you are wrong
however relief depends on a matrix of qualifying criteria and the nature of work being done as to whether "works" are zero, reduced or standard rate

ultimately the onus is on the owner to make the correct claim, but many building contractors will have no idea what to do and will royally mess it up.
On a listed building you have a better chance of finding ones used to Vat claims by using listed building specialist contractors, but they will of course cost a lot more in the first place

sections 9.2 - 9.4
Buildings and construction (VAT Notice 708) - GOV.UK

@Wot23 doesnt section 9.2 specifically say prior to Oct 2012 I. E. It only applies to alterations before Oct 2012 or am I misunderstanding the regs?

ooops. yes you are correct. It is a long time since i was involved in Vat on listed buildings as opposed to new build
"Since the October 2012 changes, a building’s listing status is now irrelevant; what matters is the property conversion. When it comes to listed buildings, maintenance and repairs usually incur the standard VAT rate of 20%. This can add a significant cost to essential work."
VAT and Listed Buildings: Navigating VAT Relief | Green and Heritage Roofing