family areas: Muswell HIll versus Crouch End

[goaway2020]

Hi,

Dh and I are trying to move from one part of the UK to London and friends have recommended for us to have a look at the areas above.

We don't know all that many people in London and are hoping to move somewhere family-friendly, good schools with a nice sense of community.

Have found a place in Muswell Hill and another nice one in Crouch end. Would anyone have any advice on whether one is particularly better than the other?

And the mums I've met at baby groups have been very similar in both places. It's a total myth that only posh mums live in MH. Honestly. I'm from a small part of NE and DH is from an inner city council house. We aren't posh... But I do like planet organic smoothies 🤣

I'd go with your gut. Two friends' kids went to HW and are lovely kids, one with SEN and was well supported. I really don't think a child would do significantly better in MH over CE. Plus it's a bus ride between them to enjoy the parks/woods/ally pally.

As others have said, Crouch End is cooler, Muswell Hill better for families and schools (though you need to be aware of catchments - realistically you're only going to qualify for one primary and one secondary school). Look at East Finchley too - same good schools and green space as MH, high street with actually useful shops, strong sense of community and it's on the Tube.

Both are very similar areas - CE is slightly more edgy and has better pubs. MH has a better high street, better secondary schools and more green spaces and woods. Prices are similar but MH is getting pricey at the top end and so becoming more corporate. But mostly CE and MH both have a public sector liberal lefty vibe. I live in MH and my DC have had a fantastic childhood with friends all living a walkable distance away and lots of parks, playgrounds, activities, swimming pool, ice rink and cinemas on the doorstep. Yes transport is an issue but well worth it for the family life you can have here. During lockdown all the different parks and woods have been a godsend.

But honestly I'd happily live in either.

I second East Finchley. I live there and often walk to MH to enjoy all that it offers. In terms of house prices, its also cheaper than MH but I don't feel like we are any worse off as we can enjoy MH whenever we want, in fact the tube being walkable is a big bonus. East Finchley also has some lovely shops, Tony's Continental and Margot bakery and green spaces.

I think Fortismere is more highly rated than Archer (in East Finchley) in the league tables but Archer is also outstanding and I don't feel the difference justifies the higher house prices. the primary schools in East Finchley are all good. The main bad thing about being in East Finchley is that you are under barnet borough and they are not the greatest.

But if you really have to weigh it up on schools MH is a better option as it has much better secondary options.

In terms of secondary schools in the area - if you can afford the catchment Alexandra Park School is the most desirable at the moment. I know several looked after children or those with SEN who have been amazingly well supported there. If schools can get it right for vulnerable groups, the rest of their pastoral care will be outstanding.

Fortismere is less sought after than previously - all the children I know who have been there were heavily tutored as not all the teaching is great.

HW will probably never be at the top of the league tables, as so many local children go private, but it's a kind, decent school that is becoming more popular and I think you're right that a child who does well at one of the MH schools would also do well there (and indeed in pretty much every other school in London).

A bit biased because I have chosen Muswell Hill. But very specific on the bits I like (either walkable to East Finchley tube or Highgate tube). We’re moving from another part of London and we are definitely not posh and I would consider myself “working class come good”. Both my partner and I work in the creative sector, but it had been a genuine worry for me that the other MH people will be posh - I am not and I feared not fitting in. We’re going to go for it anyway because I figure you always find your crowd...

I prefer MH to Crouch End or Ally Pally. All are lovely though. MH got my vote because of the wood, walkable to the Heath, and () Planet Organic. The schools all sound great also, so it seems like there are no bad choices.

Also, I am not Boden-y, but I don’t think MH is because - honestly - Boden is not that cool!

I was once in Crouch End overheard a couple of mothers boasting about their professions (lawyers) and where they went to university (oxbridge). Put me right off. They were definitely boasting and not just making conversation because they were dropping the info into the conversation randomly and loudly, like they wanted people to know. But that’s going to happen everywhere that is wealthy.

I can’t comment on the secondary schools because I’m not at that stage yet. But I don’t think you need to worry in either area.

Go with your gut!

That old joke...

How can you tell someone went to Oxford?

They’ll tell you.

Haha yes, Camdenish!!

thank you everyone! It's great to hear everyone's views - and yes, it's also a fair point regarding Oxford (my college was lovely though ). Whilst DH is firmly wc - am more of a lapsed posh person, but just too busy/tired/messy to have everything just so ;-)

Both areas are great. After over a decade of living in CE we had to move out for a secondary school. Muswell Hill has more options. Also there are large areas of CE that are in a catchment no man's land for secondary, so make sure you check when looking. Great area though, very friendly and I never experience Oxbridge name dropping.

Haha yes, Camdenish!!

I find it's the same with the Cambridge grads (and some lke to upgrade a bit by saying 'Oxbridge' which Oxford-ites would never say)

@Mhschoolq - why do people do that and thats what scares me a little bit about both areas. The need to affirm specialness/distinction etc in front of others. People boasting in front of complete strangers about something they did when they were 18 (and were probably told to do by their school/parents) is just a bit pathetic (and no am not jealous, I also went to Oxford and a few other world-leading universities around the world). Sorry if this is a bit harsh.

But yes by the sounds of it that is very Muswell Hll

I spent my 20s in CE. It was cool and still a bit gritty in those days (90s/00s). My best friend lived in MH which i always found rather a dull place. This is pre-kids though. I worked in central London and honestly having to get a bus to Finsbury Park tube or Archway tube was a complete PITA and added ages to the commute. With a family I would probably choose MH.

Also regarding schools, surely secondary schools change all the time, and as you are 13+ years away from deciding that for your first, the choice of secondary is irrelevant right now.

I asked MNHQ to delete my post as I started to feel a bit guilty that the parent might be on this board as it’s a local chat and I hadn’t been kind!

I think it’s pride, but then maybe a need to show status?

Anyhow, I really liked the school I saw and still like the area - Both areas in fact!

If it helps, the people I know who live in MH and CE are from a completely different tribe.
I’ve never come across the sort mentioned. I know the people that were there from before it was cool when it was a bit more old Stoke Newington and was just a cheap place to live. Some proper locals, some northerners.
Don’t worry about secondaries, they’re a long way off and even the ones MNs wouldn’t send their kids to are fine and maybe better than the desired ones. The only thing to concern yourself with over primaries is will you get one from your address and that’s probably not much of an issue.
If money is no object could you rent for a bit?

I used to live in MH. Would have stayed if I could have afforded a family home there. CE has better restaurants and bars imo. MH is better located for transport. But in both it depends what sure you’re on to get to tube or national rail. As you have kids and looking to settle long term I’d look for an area where you can get into both a primary and secondary you like which also works for what type of property you’re looking for in your budget. House, schools and transport (if relevant) would be my top 3 if necessary. I’d probably edge towards MH over CE for those considerations. Remember you can always hop on the bus down the hill to CE for bars and restos! East Finchley also worth considering as others have mentioned. I wouldn’t worry about needing to be put together in MH or boho enough for CE etc. It’s a pricey area of London so obviously attractS wealthier people but I made loads of lovely down to earth friends from both MH and CE when i lived there. Good luck.

We went through the exact conundrum as you. There are pros and cons for both areas.

In Crouch End, we have a larger young, creative community and a more urban, vibrant high street (both for shopping and entertainment). In Muswell Hill, we have more green space, better connected for transport and better schools, especially secondary. Highgate Wood is a nice local school, but APS is just simply outstanding for pastoral care and Fortismere has amazing facility and very dedicated parents community. I think it comes down to if you just want a place for 4-5 years then move again or settle for 7-10 years. Like you, we are creative lefty types, and we would choose Crouch End if we were making this decision 3-4 years ago. However we want to put down roots, and give our child the best possible education. Even if that means taking the bus down to Crouch End every now and again (Muswell Hill high street is no slouch, but I love Art House cinema and Kings Head).

Hello! Thank you for this informative thread. I know it has been a few years - is anyone still in CE/MH? We have just offered on a house just south of Alexandra Palace, hoping that being between the two will be best of both... But we can't find out much information about that area specifically. Any advice?

I've recently moved from Muswell Hill to Crouch End. Both have excellent primary schools. MH has better secondary schools I think in APS and Fortismere. Highgate Wood has a broader economic mix than Fortismere I think but still delivers great results for kids who are academically inclined. MH is greener but travel into town is much harder work. It is also quieter in the evenings.

Crouch End has much better transport links into town using buses to the tube and overground. I'm 30 mins to Kings X door to door. It also has a younger vibe, much better pubs, bars and restaurants. My DC in their 20s much prefer it. Shops are good in either.

House prices are a factor. They are both so expensive now that they may start attracting more private schoolers which could in time impact the schools. Crouch End has more housing mix including social and council housing and there is more range in terms of cheaper housing (still expensive) and consequently there's more of a mix in the community.

You will fit in well in either area - they are great 'villages' to raise kids in. Lots to do - you can get most of your shopping needs on your doorstep and I never spent any time having to drive my kids places - most friends and activities in walking distance.

My only question is whether house prices will start to favour the richer people and force out public sector people (which I used to be) particularly in MH.