Only way to get out extension built is to build it ourselves!

[user1499523365]

Or so it seems, we are hoping for double story, and side, plus full internal remodelling, but it seems completely affordable.

We are confident and competent, but untrained, would we be out our mind to get a shell done, pay for rewire and new central heating system and boiler and then do the rest ourselves?

Hoping for stories of hope and proof it CAN be done!

Thank you !

Building control visit at certain stages but my experience is that they're very brief visits and it's a quick check to ensure that you're compliant. With the foundations they did a quick check once the footings were dug to view the depth and had a look at the soil. He then came back when the foundations were finished to have another quick once over, but he didn't check things like the accuracy of the levels.

To be honest, we had to ensure that the foundations were completed correctly using our own knowledge (from research on the internet and the book I linked to). We hired a builder just to do the demolition and foundations and if it was left to him we'd have an extension length of 8m (as opposed to 8.5m as he measured out the footings incorrectly) and the hardcore layer was mostly soil (we spotted this and made him correct it). We also hired a timber frame company and they listed crietria that the foundations should meet, e.g. being level to a few millimetres.

We went for timber frame as we didn't want to hire a random builder to do brick and block (and London builder prices are £££!) and didn't trust ourselves to hire separate trades for the block, bricks, roofing, steels and structural calculations as it's all a bit too complex. We used Solo Timber Frame (based in Surrey/Sussex). Their product/work is amazing - the frame went up in four days(!) but their customer service is pretty dire. I'd still use them again though and they're a 'Which Trusted Trader' which gave us reassurance. They also do the structural calculations, fitting the steels, insulation and roof structure etc. The extension won't show any external wood - it'll just look like a normal extension but be super insulated. The bricklaying and roofing (felt and tiles) is more simple so I trusted traders to do the job.

Re the kitchen I'm thinking the same! I really wanted a DeVol kitchen but they're too expensive and someone on here used Foxtow and recommended them so I'll probably go with the Ikea units and put up with all the assembly/fitting faff then go for Foxtow doors if the price is ok. I visited the DIY kitchens showroom on the way back from the Yorkshire Dales and the quality is amazing but it wasn't quite what I'm trying to replicate.

We really have to be careful with the budget and I'm sure our doors will be wrecked by our two daughters. Am splashing on a quartz worktop, nice appliances and a wine fridge though as I've been waiting for three years and living in a building site!

SO helpful, thank you again. Scary then that if you have a shite builder and DON'T do your own research, it could all go terribly wrong.I'll have to threaten to throw the Building Inspector into the foundations unless they check it all thoroughly for me! I do have a contact who is a very in demand builder. He is a friend of a friend and while we couldn't afford to use him for the builder, I'd hope he'd come round and give me his thoughts on the foundations etc in exchange for a nice bottle of something.

That will be the 'hardest' part for us, once it starts going up, we'd be OK........

I will order that book and read obsessively about the processes. With the timber frame company after the frame was up, what was your next step? Sorry if it sounds stupid, but do you not have bricks or blocks? If you do, what's the advantage of brick/block AND frame? What was the price difference between that verses a brickie? Apologies for all the questions - never heard of this option before?

Did you move out? How have you found it all? Hopefully not too stressful with a newborn too - well done you!

Did you not bother with a structural engineer then if Solo did all the calculations? Will look them up and send them our plans and see what they say.

DeVol is gorgeous of course, but as you say I can't justify that spend. I do however, intend to buy these beautiful Devol stools - www.devolkitchens.co.uk/interiors/home-accessories/bum-stool-counter-height

I've also been buying some tiles and lights etc, despite my DH going mad but I can't help it. I know what style the bathrooms will be so why not?

Ours isn't a forever home, we will move in 3 years for schools so I have to think of it in a different way. I love the process though and can get so carried away, but do love a bargain, so am pretty clued up and a decent negotiator.

Whatever DH refuses to do or gets sicks of I have a decent handyman who charges a really reasonable day rate. He can do most things, so could tile one bathroom if DH threw the towel after doing the other one etc. If not, I'll do it all!!!

Have you had a look at the free standing larders? You can get them made on Ebay for really reasonable prices and they would be something special in the kitchen. Sounds like we have similar taste! This is what I mean: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bespoke-Modern-Solid-Pine-Kitchen-Larder-F-B-Shaded-White-Delivery-from-50/263400567347?hash=item3d53e5b233:g:k0UAAOSw3h1ZWROb

Great news that you have a friendly and knowledgeable builder contact - will be invaluable!

Once the timber frame went up we hired a roofer to put the felt and tiles on (circa £4.5k) and a bricklaying team to lay the bricks all around (around £6k). Timber frame means that you don't have the blockwork (timber panels are used instead) but you do lay the external bricks around the structure. Will dig out a couple of photos to show you what the timber frame looks like. Along with the roof and bricks, we then had a rooflight and sliding doors installed. Next month we'll have a polished concrete floor poured (can't wait!).

I'd say that the advantage of timber frame is that it goes up quickly (4 days!), is better insulated and is strong and durable. Also there's less room for error if you choose a good company (as opposed to a builder who may make mistakes or cut corners to get the job done quicker/cheaper). Oh, and we didn't need a structural engineer as Solo handled it all. Our total timber frame cost was around £23k. Not too sure what the block/brick/roof structure equivalent would be using a builder. Possibly the same or a little bit less?

Sadly we didn't move out as we live in London and our mortgage and nursery costs are ££! And I'm on maternity leave. Pre-kids this would have been fine but it's been a bit stressful of late. Mainly because it's winter and my little one only likes to nap in the sling on me. We've had days with labourers wheeling soil through the house with an Arctic breeze blowing through it and I'm trying to contain a toddler in the living room. Not a great couple of weeks!

Oh, those stools and the larder are gorgeous, don't tempt me! I've just been pricing up some Devol style hardware for the kitchen units (latches, knobs and cup handles) and informed DH they'll cost around £1.3k!

Here's what the timber frame looks like before all the other trades move in ... Approximate size is around 8.5m by 5m.

Forgot to say that the insulation boards will fit into the internal cavities. Then a vapour control layer goes on, plasterboard goes over it and then first fix takes place. The external timber has OSB board and then a foil backed vapour control membrane (has thermal and moisture resistant properties).

Thanks so much Crumb. Looks amazing. What made you think of that idea? Just something I didn't even consider. I'm away this week, so will have better wifi next week when back. Good luck with it all - how far away from the end are you now? Happy New Year!

We would be doing demolition, tiling, flooring, decorating and all carpentry ourselves.

This can easily be done

Thanks greendale - I have high hopes it is entirely possible! Do you speak from experience?

I think it was from reading all the horror stories on Mumsnet about untrustworthy builders! Also, we read the self build bible which gave lots of details about timber frame and the advantages and it sparked our interest.

Good on you for taking this all on! It's quite rare that I read about people doing much of the work themselves. I always think that DH and I are an anomaly. And quite possibly mad. That said, I am NEVER taking on another project after this. Ever.

Oh, and we're about 5-6 months from the kitchen being finished. Then probably another years or two for the rest of the house! Am sure we'll run out of money before the loft conversion but that can wait.

Hello again!

How are you coping without your kitchen Crumb? Getting sick of takeaways yet? You SO know you'll sell up at some point and do it all again on an even bigger scale!

I've had a productive week compiling mood boards and making some calls. I've been told to budget more than 10k and less than 20 for groundworks - helpful! That's for 3.5m back and 6 across with moving a drain.

A couple of groundwork teams said they would want to use their own brickies as they don't want the stress of calls from brickies after they've left. They also said that most brickies would find fault with their work and it's not that seamless a process to use different companies. Not really buying that one atm.

One company said that it's best to do foundations in spring as it's smoother in finer weather - i.e if ground is frozen over, different to dig etc and problematic to pump water out of trenches etc. I learnt something new!

P.S Was the Devol hardware really 1.3K or is that a joke? Hope so!

I think the key is to be really honest with yourself about where your skills lie. If you are fairly experienced at DIY and you have done your research, that's a really different situation from being totally new to everything. Some jobs are vastly easier than others. Most people can do a decent job with decorating provided they are willing to pay attention to detail and really work at the finish (prep takes days and days compared to painting!). However, complex joinery is another matter.

I would advise not biting off more than you can chew. Don't underestimate how physically tiring work of this nature can be, esp if you are doing it on top of a job. I would really question whether a timeline of 4 months is achievable for a major project while working full time. Maybe proceed with one small part of the work and see how you get on. This will give you a realistic idea of what you can or can't do.

Sadly I wasn't joking about the hardware! That said, we have to buy about 20 handles, 15 knobs and catches and so the costs really mount up. I think we're going to save around £30k by not having DeVol units so I can (almost) justify it!

I think if we ever did another project I'd have to do a whole self-build in the Surrey countryside with lots of land and another flat to live in whilst the work is being done! Not another period house with rotting joists, damp and dodogy electrics. And pay for a builder ... and project manager.

Sounds like you've had a good week! That sounds about right for groundworks. Pretty sure our foundations were £10k - larger than yours but very straightforward and no drain moving.

Hmm, I wouldn't buy that either - sounds they just want the work and to put a nice mark-up on it. The foundations have to be straight and level for the brickies and erm, that's mostly it. The person who did our foundations quoted £10k for brickwork. We declined and found another team who did it for £6k and have been fantastic (with no need to call the foundations company). Agree about doing the work in spring though - the ground is so hard now and it's all very miserable.

We've made good progress this week - the brick garden wall and extension roof should be finished. We had a slight mishap yesterday as we fell in love with a 150 year old olive tree (was in the sale). Trouble is it weighs 500kg(!), won't fit through the house or side alley and so we have to spend £350 on a crane to winch it over the house. Ahh well, forever house an all that.

Thanks whisky, wise words indeed, but we have done internal renovations before, so not complete novices. I'd like to think we can assess the different stages and demands sensibly and make informed decisions. We will not be attempting to build the extension over a weekend!

Crumb - I've had a look at the Devol hardware and now understand! £45 for a handle. They are beautiful, they'll cost more than the Ikea carcasses! Everyone will be saying: 'Oh wow, is that a Devol kitchen'? What ones did you go for out of interest? What colour will your doors be? I would love a Marble top in ours, think that would look incredible and hopefully not too OTT on a bog standard semi! That's the best part isn't it? All the kitchen and bathroom planning, well for me it is!

We're going for an antique copper finish, but not from Devol sadly. That would make it even more expensive(!) and they won't let you purchase some of their hardware (e.g. the catches) unless you buy a kitchen with them. Armac Martin have a range which looks similar to Devol so we'll go with them for knobs, cup handles and a few catches. We're now trying to finalise the IKEA planner for a Shaker Doors quote and, quite frankly, it's made my brain melt.

We're going to have Farrow and Ball Railings as the colour (a dark grey), which should contrast nicely with the copper hardware. The worktops will be white quartz (from Diapol) and the splashback will be marble tiles (from Mandarin Stone) so the overall look isn't too dark.

A marble worktop will be amazing! Not to OTT at all. The only slight issue I would have is that marble can stain a bit and some cleaning products can't go near it (such as Viakal). Am sure it would be fine though.

Have you made any more progress with your quotes? Kitchen design and planning definitely preferable to quotes for foundations.

Hi Crumb,

I was going to update tonight so a timely post. I've had a really good week. Spoke to 3 bricklayers and 3 groundswork teams. They were all HUGELY helpful and informative and I learnt loads. I'm inspired and grateful for how kind people can be with their time and how much information they are willing to share.

The other key thing is that as I'm sure you know, to the average Joe in the street, we are bloody bonkers for taking this on; cue my in laws rolling around in horror when I told them our plans and a stream of 'But you don't know what you're doing, it will be a disaster etc'.

However, speaking to the groundworkers/bricklayers they give you hope and confidence it can be done. As one groundsmen chap said to me after I went through the plans: 'Oh, it's a small job then!' . I said: 'Not to me it's not!'. None of them have said I'm mad or it can't be done, so I need to keep the faith if I have little wobbles or pay attention to the naysayers.

Would you mind me asking how much you paid the bricklayer? Is there a rough guide to how much they charge?

On the subjects of kitchens, my friend had a brochure of the 1909 Kitchens at hers this week. Have you looked at their website/brochure for inspiration. Yours sounds amazing. Does the quartz have a fleck in it?

Has the olive tree had a smooth transfer btw?

Ahh, that sounds great! Good, helpful and reliable tradesmen are so rare. I think the going rate for a bricklayer in London is around £200 per person, per day at the moment. The problem with having someone on a day rate is that there's no real incentive to work hard and most prefer to give a fixed price for a job (which tend to work out more than the day rate but mean they absolutely go at it hammer and tongs). We got lucky with our brickies as their fixed price was similar to their day rate. Our garden brick wall cost £6k in labour which was 3 weeks of work for two tradesmen. Materials were extra and covered by us.

Will have a look at the 1909 brochure - thanks! The quartz I'll get will be super white with no flecks. We have it in our utility room (and in our last house) and it's great.

The tree is still a work in progress! We're definitely going to opt for the crane at £350 and it's booked in for early/mid Feb. The other two quotes for the same kind of lorry were £850 and £1,600 not including VAT!