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DIY kitchens - Helmsley anyone?

321 replies

Lambrilittlelegs · 22/10/2017 08:53

Hello
We think we have decided on a Helmsley kitchen from DIY kitchens. Has anyone else got this one and if so would you mind posting some pictures? It’s not available to view in the showroom so we are buying offline without seeing it (although I will order a sample door).

Going for a F&B painted finish.
Any advice/tips/pics most welcome! Thanks

OP posts:
Thread gallery
74
MiniCooperLover · 16/10/2018 18:38

Anyone wanting a larder Wickes have a good one in their Tiverton range, this picture doesn't show it that clearly (their brochure is rubbish) but it sits in a corner at angles and so you'd walk in and have shelves to your left and right. It was quite spacious. We are prob getting our units from Howden but we are going to ask our builder to visit Wickes to look at it so he can recreate it for us 😊

DIY kitchens - Helmsley anyone?
DIY kitchens - Helmsley anyone?
aisteb · 16/10/2018 20:24

DIY and UO have something like this as well, it's called a corner larder unit/walk in larder. I'm sure Howdens will have a version of it as well.

Rosita · 29/10/2018 21:54

Well, we’ve had a couple of issues with DIY already unfortunately....first of all, we sent our order in and then an email was sent back the next day by DIY with a load of extra charges added on that required 24 hrs to reply...which went into my builders junk mail for some reason. Cue much stress when a week later it was found and we thought it was too late. Why they didn’t call or thought it ok to add almost £500 on without checking it was ok by me is baffling! Anyway, my builder managed to sort it out but not happy. And then, a few days later, DIY randomly deducted £68 from their account! Fuming at the moment....

aisteb · 29/10/2018 22:42

Oh no, what have they tried to charge you £500 for? Hope you get all this sorted, should be about two weeks until your delivery date?

Rosita · 31/10/2018 17:19

It was for a particular kind of wirework on the pull outs. On their website, there are three types mentioned with no cost difference specified. I talked this through on the phone and they never mentioned that the type I wanted was WAY more expensive. Plus an additional door for a boiler cupboard which again they didn’t say was extra as we went through the order on the phone! It’s due to arrive around the 12th of November.....fingers crossed all will be good!

pringles999 · 01/11/2018 22:02

pls help ... am sitting here glaring at a sample Helmsley door. Can't decide on the woodgrain.

Do any of the units online inframe kitchens not have visible woodgrain? The Helmsley doors are solid timber frame with veneered centre panel whereas others are tulipwood/mdf mix. Are the tulipwood ones grainless? Obviously mdf would be. You just can't see on pictures no matter how much I zoom in ! TIA

Rosita · 01/11/2018 22:19

Tulipwood does not show the wood grain. I can’t remember whether the units online ones have visible grain or not now. I’ve looked at so many!
I would call units online and ask them. I went through a phase of being unsure about the wood brain but then decided I liked it again!

pringles999 · 01/11/2018 23:00

Thanks Rosita, I couldn't help but laugh tho that you have typed 'wood brain' as that's how I feel !!

Unacervezaporfavor · 02/11/2018 16:52

Poplar/tulipwood will not show grain. Paper wrapped mdf for floating panels on 5-piece doors is fine/pretty std and will take paint really well and give a perfect smooth finish.

I’m not sure what DIY or UO supply but avoid any in-frame/inset kitchen regardless of brand, supplier etc that uses mdf on anything other than panels or accessories like moulded plinths etc especially when using traditional butt hinges or concealed hinges with mounting plates on the frame (rather than on the unit side or packer).

pringles999 · 02/11/2018 18:03

Thank you cerveza. It's really hard comparing like for like.

Helmsley doors are 20 mm timber frame with veneered panel, cabinets MFC (some sort of coated chipboard) 18 mm.

Devol use maple for the door frames, tulipwood for panel, birch ply for cabinets. Handmade use Tulipwood for frame, mdf for panel and carcass.
But I'm not sure what to do with this information !

Unacervezaporfavor · 02/11/2018 23:25

Hi Pringles

I’m not too clued up on Devol but just skimming their site it seems they use tulipwood/poplar for their frames, doors etc. My understanding is that Smallbones etc use this too ... it’s pretty standard amongst the “top” brands, independent cabinet makers, etc. Although I suspect the top end will offer different timbers (at a cost no doubt).

Maple (specifically hard American maple) is an awesome choice for an in-frame/inset “ style painted kitchen when you don’t want to see visible grain. It takes paint really well, the grain is easily filled to give a beautifully smooth finish which doesn’t show through and it is exceptionally “hard”-wearing. Grin

TBH I don’t know of any mainstream manufacturer that offers a standard range with hard maple frames and door rails and stiles. In my experience it’s more the domain of a truly custom/commissioned kitchen. Often only the frames are made of maple to reign in the cost as the price difference between US maple vs poplar (the usual choice in this instance) is huge.

So, in a world with limitless budget a timber like hard maple for this style of kitchen is the ideal. Another similar quality wood which paints well and is hardwearing is beech (also not cheap to have the lot made in beech).

Next comes poplar/tulipwood etc. Whilst much less hardwearing than maple or beech it takes paint really well, is in abundant supply, is as stable as a timber can be in a kitchen environment and it doesn’t show grain. Alder, used by PWS on their 1909 range, is a marginally harder timber than tulipwood but only negligibly so and shares all the other characteristics re finish etc making it an equally suitable choice.

So at this level there is very little difference (if any) between the quality of a tulipwood/alder frame and 5 piece door made by smallbone, devol, new English, handmade kitchens or even 1909. The big differences, certainly to cost, come with brand status, service (to an extent) and other elements regarding the kitchen as a whole (eg ability to customise, use exotic timbers or veneers, expensive accessories etc etc).

Choice of cabinet material to determine quality of the overall kitchen is something that I’m less convinced by. Many makers will say that birch plywood is the best choice. It is certainly at the top end of choices but it’s often sited as the reason why “cheaper” kitchens use MFC or MF MDF or veneered MDF. While birch ply costs a little more than quality MFC boards or MDF veneered or MF boards (note that these boards are not all made the same and cheaper kitchens will use poorer quality chilpboard cores AND melamines) the cost across an average kitchen is relatively negligible when compared to the total cost of the kitchen including doors, labour in making and finishing, cost of hardware etc.

For all the arguments that plywood swells less when submerged, it still swells enough to warrant a new unit, panel etc. when there has been a significant enough leak to seriously compromise the integrity of any of the boards. Furthermore, it’s composition closer resembles solid timber than mdf and mfc which means that it behaves more like timber than the other manufactured boards hence it will move more than they do. MDF gets a bad name but takes paint beautifully. However, chipboard and plywood are quite a bit lighter than MDF which can be an advantage (they certainly sag a lot less under their own weight making them a better choice for shelves especially in wide units). MDF and chipboard both take glues for melamine and veneers very well and won’t show any grain (they don’t have any). Plywood needs finishing and some feel that a top quality melamine is actually a tougher material than any lacquer or oil that one would apply to a plywood carcass and will therefore perform better for longer with bowls, plates etc being moved in and out of units. The arguments for and against each board go on and on. Many are firmly in the ply camp...I’m on the fence as I think they all have their merits. Importantly if it’s birch or poplar ply (or a quality oak veneered ply), quality MR, deep route, etc type MDF or a reputable chipboard (eg Egger, Krono) i don’t think any are a bad choice. Much more important is board thickness (including back panels) and manner of construction.

What I will say is that in my opinion Innova are not the best quality kitchen component manufacturer. Personally I think Burbidge and PWS make better quality (and pricier) products (possibly Multiwood too but it’s been a while that I’ve seen their stuff). In fact I’m sure that DIY used to use pretty much Burbidge and PWS exclusively (I’m going back a few years) but it seems they no longer do.Hmm

Lastly I wouldn’t compare the Helmsley with Devol tbh. Nor would I put it next to 1909 either. 1909 is a form of production run Devol, New English,etc style kitchen which should make it cheaper but still sort of puts you in that “category” of kitchen (it’s certainly not a “cheap” kitchen). However, with any component supplier the overall quality of your kitchen is also massively dependant on who manufactures the units and fits the frames and doors.

I would compare Helmsley to PWS Milton In Frame and all those similar offerings from other manufacturers.

Lastly, to end what I’m sure is now a boring rant to all who have read this far, I would advise against Blum style (ie concealed) hinges with in-frame kitchens such as these. These hinges are great because of their ability to adjust how the door hangs after it’s fitted (and soft close). However, inherent in their ability to be adjusted is the fact that they need adjustment over time. With overlay doors this is less of a concern as there isn’t a frame 1 or 2mm around every edge of the door. When the doors inevitably drops, it will likely bind on the frame, thereby rub paint, etc. Note this isn’t the hardware failing it’s just its nature given it’s function. Yes it can be readjusted but eventually it reaches its limits in this regard. Obviously it can be replaced and you start again but how many do this? Now, keep in mind that with 22-24mm hardwood doors from 1909 right up to the elite there is a lot of weight on the hinges and this will only make it worse/happen more frequently. So, even when the 1909 website showcases the product with these hinges be advised of the above.

It’s no coincidence then that the big, quality brands use traditional butt hinges. This requires much more precise cabinet work by the maker and therefore increases overall product cost. Here there is no adjustability, either the cabinet maker hangs the door well and it functions and looks well hung or, well, it doesn’t...

I hope that helps. I’m sorry it’s long...I kinda got carried away there. Hmm

aisteb · 06/11/2018 16:52

Our UO Petworth has arrived today and it looks beautiful, I'm in love. I was worried about the wider frame size when compared to Helmsley and most bespoke kitchens but it actually looks alright. I like how the colours have turned out as well.

The customer service have been great although I have not yet checked whether they have not made any mistakes in size and quantity of the units.

The photos don't do it justice but here are some anyway.

DIY kitchens - Helmsley anyone?
DIY kitchens - Helmsley anyone?
DIY kitchens - Helmsley anyone?
aisteb · 06/11/2018 17:00

Just read the long informative post by Unacervezaporfavor and I have to say I don't think my of these cheaper suppliers like DYI and UO offer actual butt hinges, unfortunately.

I love the butt hinge look and as we had to have Blum hinges we are going to attach fake butt hinges to just get that look. And it sounds like we will need to adjust the Blum hinges with time..

Rosita · 06/11/2018 17:32

Congrats @aisteb! Very happy you love it!

bobkate · 06/11/2018 20:18

aisteb how exciting..Will you post pics when it's all in? Colours look lovely Smile

pringles999 · 06/11/2018 21:19

Thank you cerveza, I'd give you at least diez cervezas for your amazingly helpful reply !

Units online seem to do the 1909 kitchen so its time to compare some costs.

I wasn't overly keen on the woodgrain, but aisteb I can see the grain on your doors and they look lovely.

4yearsnosleep · 07/11/2018 07:48

It's looking gorgeous!

mum2015 · 07/11/2018 08:25

aisteb,
It is beautiful!

Rosita · 20/11/2018 10:33

How are things coming along @aisteb?

Our kitchen has now been delivered and I’m delighted with it. We have had quite a few problems with DIY though....

aisteb · 20/11/2018 10:37

I'm glad you like it! Do you have any pictures?

Ours will not be fully fitted until the 5th as that is when the worktops arrive. There's been problems with Topsco in regards to worktops but ordering the kitchen from Units Online has been plain sailing.

I attach a photo though you cannot see much yet.

DIY kitchens - Helmsley anyone?
Rosita · 20/11/2018 13:57

This is the only photo I have so far. Builders are impressed with the quality and mechanisms.
I just wish the process had been better.....we’ve just realized another mistake I’m hoping they can solve...

DIY kitchens - Helmsley anyone?
mum2015 · 20/11/2018 14:36

rosita,

should plaster+paint go before kitchen on that wall?

Rosita · 20/11/2018 14:55

It’s been plastered already. Not sure about whether it’s being painted behind the units.

mum2015 · 20/11/2018 15:40

ok.

aisteb · 20/11/2018 16:41

@Rosita it looks lovely, our grey part of the kitchen looks identical in colour. Looking forward to seeing the final photos. What worktop did you go for in the end?

They "should" seal the fresh plaster with at least a skim coat behind the units but this is our second major house renovation and at least half of the things don't get done they way they "should" be. This seems to be the case with every trade we encounter Confused

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