does anyone know what counts as an 'outbuilding' ?

[LaurieFairyCake]

Under permitted development it says 'outbuildings, sheds, greenhouses' mustn't be more than 50% of the garden

I want to put an office (with a loo/shower room so I can use it as an extra bedroom) plus a summerhouse, plus a covered verandah on the outside of a flat.

The whole 'garden' is 1130 square feet - if I count all the above its more than 50% but if I don't count the verandah then it's less.

However the verandah I want is going to be enclosed like an American porch with a fireplace and acrylic panels instead of glass - like this

The veranda you originally describe is a conservatory. Conservatories don't need footings but will be built on something like a concrete slab.

No, I'm going for a wooden deck (American porch style) with removeable acrylic panels

I've got a conservatory in this house, it's nothing like I want

You say it's a flat? I don't think they get the same PD rights as a house in any case so I think you will need permission.

IIRC if it's a garden shed, even a really nice one, you aren't allowed to sleep in it. That would make it a dwelling. Putting a WC in it I think would also be a red light. You seem to be describing a small house and hoping to evade regulations.

Yes, I'm hoping to get very close to the 50% allowed for outbuildings in the garden. Not trying to evade anything.

I'm not trying to put a house on - I am allowed to put an office with a loo in (I need permission for the loo, I know that)
In my current house I have an office/loo in the garden for my work - no problem with getting permission.

The office and shed are fine. Adding the verandah/deck is the problem as it takes me over the 50% so I need to do it in a way it doesn't.

The PD rights for flats are different for extensions but I don't want to put an extension on - too much hassle.

Sounds like you might not have PD rights for the outbuildings anyway if it's a flat

From Hammersmith and Fulham

d) Do I need permission to erect a garden shed and / or an outbuilding?

You will need to apply for planning permission to erect a garden shed or an outbuilding in a flat.

In a house, the erection of a garden shed or an outbuilding can be permitted development if it complies with the rules.

The flat I'm hoping to buy comes with its share of the freehold and owns the entire garden round the house.

Yes, I do think I will need to apply (before or retrospectively) for the office.

Ok, because earlier you said I know I'm allowed the office and she summerhouse under permitted development.

If you're putting in planning permission for one then, you might as well get permission for the whole lot, no?

Yes, I thought that til you said it , so thanks !

I don't think there will be a problem though because of the freehold and their being no other garden for other residents.

Just because you own the freehold it doesn't mean that your flat has PD rights. I think if you want to put up anything, it will need permission.

You can get pre-application advice and they'll give an informal opinion. To be honest, it sounds huge, I think it perhaps won't be as simple as you make out.

I've had a read up and verandas don't come under permitted development - you'll need full planning permission. www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PDforhouseholders_TechnicalGuidance.pdf

To be honest it sounds huge That was my first thought! If the garden is 1130 sq ft and you're looking at something larger than 50% of that if you add up all three 'outbuildings' are we talking around 600 sq ft here? His large is the actual flat? I know very little about planning/permitted development in relation to flats, but it sounds like it will be if an overbearing nature to me and if I were the neighbours (upstairs or adjacent) I certainly wouldn't be happy with your proposals.

We built a 500sq ft kitchen and utility extension at our last house. The house was originally 2000 sq ft (plus a small, delapidated outbuilding we took down) so the extra floor space we gained was in proportion. Our garden it was rural Wilts was 1/3 acre so our build had no noticeable impact on outside space or neighbouring properties.

That said, I assume this is in London where it seems anything goes with regard to cramming in more development these days and I guess if a precedent is set maybe your neighbours will actually end up thanking you as it'll open the flood gates for them to do likewise till there is no green space left

Can you not look a little further out of your preferred area and find something that already has the space you need?

The 'garden' is currently entirely concrete slabs. It's really horrible. Even with the office and the summerhouse/shed on it I can vastly improve the rest of it by planting well. The office and shed are temporary buildings too and won't have much impact at all on the neighbours.

I've currently got an allotment which I will keep on for a while after I move so I can move the 28 rose bushes I've got on it to my new garden.

I don't want to move further out. I currently live further out. Though I'm rapidly going off the fiat idea and I'm looking at much worse condition houses in the same area. Hopefully I will get one of them and this ugly concrete flat will not be possible.

This is my current office - I don't think it's ugly

Here's a picture of the awful garden at the moment
It would be vastly improved by an attractive home office, a summerhouse, and a verandah

Without being able to see what the garden looks like from the back door, will you have any garden left to plant your roses in by the time you've done all that!