Support thread for house sellers

[Spirael]

Just what it says on the tin, really! I'm sure there must be other stressed house sellers out there? Hopefully we can band together and get some small joy of (hopefully?) seeing our houses sell so we can get a move on!

This is a thread of hand holding and mutual support for the EA dealings, weeks of silence, frantic house tidying, no-show viewings, silly offers and tough decisions. This is not for house bashing and price slating. There are plenty of other threads for that!

I've been trying to sell for a year now. Had a surge of viewings earlier in the summer making the right noises, but all has gone quiet for the last few weeks.

However, we have a viewing booked for later this afternoon from someone who has sold their house and is able to proceed - wanting to move before Christmas. Currently swinging between pessimistic and optimistic, while trying not to look at the house we want to buy!

Anyone else out there? :)

Are you sure it's not a case of EA's making up viewings who then mysteriously 'cancel' to make it look as if they are still working very hard? I can't imagine many reasons why I would cancel a viewing at the last minute... It just seems a bit fishy if it's happening a lot... especially to those who have been on the market a long time and who might, conceivably, be thinking about changing agent?

Would you consider doing less to prepare for viewings, rather than restricting the times people can view?
It seems that the bar has risen massively in the last few years in terms of what people do to prepare the house. It used to be that you would just make sure it was fairly clean and tidy but now people feel they have to 'dress' the house, rearrange bedrooms etc and it becomes a massive thing which then makes the no-show viewer a bigger let-down. I can see why people do this but is it really more important to make the house look perfect than to let the viewer in at the time they want to come?

I have considered doing less cleaning and prepping for a viewing but worry that the house has been advertised as immaculate and it won't appear that way IYSWIM.

I don't think that's the case in this situation YellowWellies. The viewers who've cancelled on us have generally then been rearranged at a later date. So they definitely exist, they just don't figure on it being a big thing to not show up at short notice and rearrange to aonother day/time!

As for preparing less for viewings, unfortunately there are 100+ similar 3 bed semis at a similar price within a mile of mine. So I'm working frantically to try and make mine stand out as being better than the competition.

Apparently I'm not good at it, as people keep choosing other houses!

I'd like to think I'd stop viewers coming after work, but if they're proceedable and my EA thinks they're a good chance then I'll inevitably find myself agreeing again... [weak willed]

I have just seen the new Halifax figures link and am feeling a bit lucky with our sale if it all goes through (it is still with the solicitors, wah, not there yet, and am bricking it).

Prices are now over 20% down from peak and have breeched the £160k barrier, which seems to have been a psychologically sticky figure. Also both the Halifax and Nationwide figures are in agreement. Incidentally selling prices are now lower than they were in 2004! These are national prices, so given that London has only just started to turn - these figures mask some much bigger regional declines in there, and some much smaller regional declines too. Good luck to those with offers in the SE - it sounds as though you might have timed it perfectly.

I'm wondering if the upturn in viewings folks are seeing is people who think that value has returned to the market and are out to see if they can find someone who needs to sell (maybe someone who's SVR rate has just gone up - like a Santander customer? or someone who's job is looking shaky? or someone selling after probate who has lost confidence in the market - these are the sort of sales that can set the price for a street, as my parents found to their detriment back in the last crash) and is willing to negotiate. Incidentally how far from 2004 prices are asking prices? That might explain why offers seem unpalatably cheeky? The average selling price is now hugely different from the average asking price according to Rightmove - over £65k difference

Looking at the figures alone - (admittedly national) does anyone think that waiting for the market to improve is realistic in the next few months? I'm 90% sure that we want to rent but know that this will mean another move so have to try to get over my innate denial. We need to sort this out before the bub arrives...

June 2004: £159,685
Aug 2007 £199,770 (peak just before Lehmans / Northern Rock)
Sept 2012 £159,486
-£40,284 (fall from peak)
-20.2% (percentage fall)

Cuddy I bet your house is MUCH more immaculate than you think - there are some absolute tips on the market.

Spirael if it were me I'd be minded to keep letting procedable buyers view at a time that suits them (but then I have the option to work from home) - otherwise they might think you're not that motivated to sell and if there is lots of competition as you say - you don't want to make your buyers work too hard. Sadly. I know it's a real pisser and preparing for viewings is a total nightmare. Could you not just ship off some junk / bits that you always tidy away pre viewing into a box in the loft? That's what we did in the end... its just coming down out of there now....

It depends on your market - if your likely buyers are likely to work then they would have to do evenings, I wouldn't want to take time off during the day to view a house as it would mean lost wages (I freelance) for me and lost holiday for DH. I think a lot of folks might be in the same boat. It's only relocators doing bulk viewings or the retired or those who don't work who seem to want to do daytime viewings up here.

'Cuddy I bet your house is MUCH more immaculate than you think - there are some absolute tips on the market.'

This.
It's got to look cared for, it mustn't smell, it mustn't be so cluttered it looks tiny, but I am sure there are diminishing returns above a certain level. I read an article once about preparing for viewings that said that the most important things were clean windows, a weeded garden and the obvious DIY jobs done. It must be tempting to get obsessed by cleaning and staging because it's something you are in control of, but as a buyer surely if there are lot of houses the same on the market the one you buy is not the cleanest but the cheapest?

Aye too much smell of cleaning products makes me think - hmm are they hiding mould or damp? So possibly has the opposite effect to that desired. Just remove enough clutter to show the space to its best and keep a basic eye on cleaning. If you are putting glasses and place settings on tables, scatter cushions on beds - then your house will look forced, staged and a bit desperate to sell to be honest. Price means more than prep in this market. If there is a lot of competition it isn't the staging that's going to win the sale. Not unless you go whole hog and virtually move all of your stuff into storage but that's not a realistic approach. Buyers are human beings - they want the same thing as most sellers - to protect their finances, and seeing a falling market many are making offers (viewed as cheeky) to try to price in future falls. They're not Aggie and whatsit the OCD cleaners from Channel 4.

Incidentally we sold ours within 14 days with a garden that needed weeding and dirty windows (we get sea salt spray after storms / gales as we're only one field back from the sea) and still sold. Admittedly perhaps folks gave me a bit of lee way as I'm 8 months preggo and beyond weeding / climbing ladders. So we weren't on top of everything. It seems to be setting the right 'mood' or lifestyle / feel without obvious artificial staging. For us that was just the kettle singing on the Rayburn and flowers on the table. and the worst of the catshit / dust bunnies hoovered up, most of DH's possessions stashed to the loft

Right another viewing tomorrow at 3.00 pm - someone who has sold and is close to exchange. They have asked about our position too. Thankfully I cleaned up today as it is my day off. Only downside is that at 3.10 the junior sch

Doh.. Junior school kids and parents walk past but they're not too noisy and the person looking is a teacher. Please let this be the one!

Different areas, different situations. Very simplified example, but consider the following...

In my area, there are lots of very similar 3 bed houses in terms of age/size/layout between £117k-£130k, £13k difference. Elsewhere, very similar 3 bed houses might instead be between £315k-£350k, £35k difference.

In each area you find two houses with identical land and layout. The first house is top of the price range but is decorated perfectly, brand new high quality kitchen and bathroom. The second house is bottom of the price range, with tired decor, kitchen and bathroom.

Despite the differences in housing costs, salaries are similar as are goods and labour costs of redecorating/refurbishing in both areas.

£13k is barely going to cover redecorating and replacing the kitchen and bathroom to a high standard in the cheaper housing area, and there'd be the added inconvenience of living on a building site. And, at the end of the day, £13k isn't going to add a huge amount to the mortgage. So you may as well buy the perfect house for a bit more.

Meanwhile in the more expensive area, £35k should easily cover redecorating and refurbishing to make the house perfect and leave you better off than buying the expensive house in the first place, so you're more likely to live it with it not being perfect immediately. Also, £35k is a fair bit extra to try and get a mortgage for. So in that area, you may as well buy the cheap house.

The difference in prices is 10% in both cases!

We're not worried if the house prices continue to drop after we (hopefully) sell and buy. The next house we're looking at getting will be our forever home, so we're expecting to be there for the next 30 years and will just stay until we expire if necessary!

But anyway, all our possessions are already in the loft or garage. We haven't had access to our books or DVDs for months, all our photos and ornaments are gone, and poor DD has no toys left in the house - she plays with the feather duster and hand hoover!

Our prep for viewers is cleaning up after the rampaging toddler and moving/hiding the day-to-day stuff like the nappy bin/toilet training seat, laundry baskets/drying racks, the rice cooker/food processor, the coffee table/rug, etc. Either for squick reasons or mostly to make the house seem as big as possible.

We don't set the table or scatter flower petals or anything.

To be honest, I'd like to think I'd tell appointment breaking viewers to work to my schedule instead of theirs... But I'm so meek yet eager to sell that I'll just keep agreeing, running round like a loony then being let down.

No-show viewers don't understand that you've spent hours cleaning and tidying. They think the house looks exactly as it does in the particulars all the time, especially if they're FTBs with no understanding of life with young children.

This is why - when I prepare a property for sale - I advise my clients to designate a series of Saturdays and Sundays as viewing days, when the house is dressed to look exactly as it did in the particulars, and not allow viewings at any other time. Agents can arrange back to back viewings which make a property look in demand, and save you time and aggravation. You can prepare for a second viewing at a time to suit a potential buyer, but before that, you're in charge. A degree of inflexibility will weed out the time wasters.

I don't advise open house simultaneous viewings. They make houses feel too small, serious buyers feel too self-conscious, and can be very dispiriting if no-one turns up, which happens more often than you'd think.

We're online with our new EAs as of tonight. Hopefully this is the beginning of some real progress...

Old EAs got not a single viewing in the last week they had the property. They also had to be chased up to remove the board and take our house off their website. So not impressed with them.

Good luck Marshmallow

Woo Cuddy that sounds very hopeful! 1605 I'd say that most FTBs these days do have a pretty good idea about how much mess little children make - given that the average age for FTBs is now 37. We're not in the 70s and 80s where you could buy your family home aged 20 - pre children, anymore - many viewers are also juggling child care commitments. I would suggest that no matter what the age group - there are always going to be discourteous w*nkers who don't show up or have the manners to cancel if they are not seriously interested. I would count a no-show as someone not really interested to be honest.

Hope your new EA gets you some good buyers, Marshmallow! :) Any immediate interest? Don't panic if not, sometimes it takes a little while for people to notice the new adverts.

Good luck with your viewings, CuddyMum and Toomuchtea. I'm sure the teacher won't mind a bit of school run noise, in fact maybe she even has ideas to work there and have a short commute. Meanwhile the Londoners may be looking to move to somewhere less busy and more basic, you never know.

Our viewing tomorrow has been nudged to 10am, which is fine by us. Especially since it's doubling up and the EA are showing around two groups at the same time! With that, and all the other viewings they can honestly say they've carried out this week, hopefully it'll make demand seem high. [crosses fingers]

Not sure what's happening with the cancelling couple from yesterday... The EA is trying to get hold of them in order to rearrange.

So we're back to three interested parties again. Really hoping one of them is the one!

I also hope the flowers survive one more day. I don't want to buy new ones!

Spirael they've just been round to collect the spare key & DD conveniently filled her nappy just as they arrived.

First viewing already booked for tomorrow, I told them we'd clear out of the house for the afternoon so if any more requests do come in today they can do as many back to back as they like.

3.00 pm teacher viewer cancelled this morning - poorly. EA confident they will rearrange. Shame I was running around tidying in a suit and high heels before work this morning and then had to tip toe across the wet lawn to pick up a dog poo!!

And to make me feel even worse, a house in the price bracket down from us came on the market today - semi detached and very dated. I mentioned to the EA I would be interested in viewing it should we ever get an offer. She said they were inundated with viewings from cash buyers and people in rented and that it wouldn't be available for long - humph!

EA probably exaggerating Cuddy, I wouldn't take it too seriously.

That's annoying about the teacher but not serious. I can't see the teacher worrying about the people walking past at schoolrun time because she'll still be at work herself then.

Well I've no more viewings lined up for the weekend so we're off out on Saturday night for a Chinese and copious amounts of alcohol!

Aaargh! My conveyancers are useless

The are garbling the information the buyers solicitors are giving us, and are absolutely unable to offer me any advice. They don't seem to think this is their role at all. They are just box-tickers, not people I feel are acting on my behalf at all.

I am so pissed off with them.

I have found out more useful information speaking to two random solicitors off the internet, on the phone for 10 minutes, than I have in the whole two months with these guys so far.

Can't wait till our relationship with them is over and I can give them the worst review ever (we got them through a website which works on reviews. They seemed to have lots of good reviews. My review will cost them business, I'm sure of it.)