The MN lessons learnt kitchen thread.

[jollydiane]

I have read loads of kitchen threads so here is my conclusions.

1. Plan for where you bin is going to go.
2. Handless kitchens look lovely but can wind you up.
3. Floor Tiles look stunning but can be a bugger to keep clean.
4. Splash-backs are very practical for cleaning and can look stunning although some of you think they look naff.

What else should I add to the list before I make my purchase?

The one area I'm really stuck on is flooring. I want something that I can use my lakeland steam mop on (another MN suggestion) which I love.

Pyrolytic oven
Induction hob
Drawers rather than cupboards under worksurfaces
Zodiaq worksurfaces (like this)

Not worried about impressing the neighbours, PJ. We are not living in Kensington!

I like the look of the glass worktops but think they may be too expensive. Granite too, perhaps.

We are renovating a whole house so have only a small budget for the kitchen. And I am concious of the fact that if we overspend that we will never get it back if we ever sell the house.

Am off to look into the laminated worktops - it is what we have had in other kitchens in rented houses.

I disagree re ceramic sinks. I've lived mainly in hardwater areas and stainless steel seems to retain the calcium build-up unless you wipe down every five minutes, whereas ceramic seems to shrug it off.

Also, my main reason for liking ceramic sinks is that they are DEEP, which is what I need because I am normally doing splashy things like washing veg or big pots that won't go in the dishwasher. I am starting to see stainless steel butler-shaped sinks around, however.

And if you must have an under worksurface fridge, and especially if you find it difficult to bend down, get one with "drawers" (more like shelves on runners that pull out) to save on rummaging around at the back.

And something else - the more energy efficient fridges achieve this by having more insulation, thus thicker walls and less actual space inside. Something to bear in mind.

One thing I've never understood about worktops is that it's supposed to be an advantage to cut food directly onto them and put pans on them straight from the stove. Hence why wood, laminate etc get a bad rap. Does anyone actually cut straight onto a worksurface?

Sharp knives can live in drawers if you get ones like these with blade covers.

ah, hard water and watermarks. the bane of kitchens and bathrooms. Yes, it doesn't show so much on light-coloured surfaces, although it is always present. It polishes off better with an old towel.

You might consider saving up for a water-softener (not one that works runs on magnetism). Once you've had one you will not want to be without it. You will be stunned at the absence of limescale, softness of towels, tiny amounts of soap and detergent used, cleanliness of windows, shinyness of hair, softness of skin, etc.

I would never cut on to granite directly, nor would I put a hot pan on.

We always use chopping boards, but that is as much to do with hygiene and cats walking on the counters.

I suspect it may also be to do with the shape of the sink, PJ. Ceramic sinks are usually under-mounted and most of the surface that gets wet is either the bottom (which drains obvs) and the sides, which are vertical. So less standing hardwater. Most stainless steel sinks are a big seamless shape with lots of horizontal surfaces and nooks and crannies that get frequently splashed but not drained.

I always use a cutting board, and it would feel v odd to cut directly onto a worktop.

We live in Scotland, so the hardness of the water is not really an issue.

Piglet - that's where I am at with it.

I want to spend a ridiculous bunch of cash on an oven. I really am struggling to see what the advantage is of spending even more money on granite, fancy tiles and whatnots.

I think I'm going for a lino floor, a decent melanine worksurface with a low splashback, giant stainless steel sink, washable paint and one of those gorgeous backlit glass splashbacks that don't seem to be more expensive than the bogging smokey grey one that rangmaster sell to fit their ovens

Whilst I am glad you all love your granite, I'm unable to bear the thought of spending that much money on a worksurface. A splashback made out of gin bottles though? NOW you are talking! whips out credit card

I can put hot pans directly onto my slate worktop. I've had it for a year and it hasn't stained or chipped yet. I love it so much. I've had wood before which was really hard to keep and laminate which was fine (until DH put a hot pan down on it in a panic and burnt a huge hole in it don't ask why) but I adore my slate.

We don't cut straight onto our granite, but we do definitely put hot pans down on it - and that was one of the major selling points. The only damage to our laminate worktop in last house was scorch marks. However, if it was a choice between that and a decent oven, then I would definitely opt for laminate worktops which look fine and last well as long as you use trivets. We massively overspent on our kitchen renovation, and effectively put off doing the rest of the house for a few years by doing so, but it's a big room which we now spend more time in than anywhere else in the house, so I still think it was the right decision.

Nope, still the right decision...

I haven't read the whole thread, but my lesson ( having put in new kitchen about four years ago) is add a LOT of storage, and when you think you've planned too much storage, add some more STORAGE!

Lots of crap in my kitchen despite tons of cupboards!

I have always said that I would have gas hob if I were planning my own kitchen.

At the moment, we have an old electric hob and it annoys me to have to clean out the dirt and grime. Am I going to regret the gas hob? Should I go for induction instead?

Wanted gas cause I prefer cooking on it cause it is so responsive.

My induction hob is way more responsive than any gas hob I've used, particularly good for getting consistent low simmering temperatures without flamse going out. It only needs a wipe over in terms of cleaning.

Hi

Fab thread, am in the middle of major house rennos and planning kitchen, lots of useful hints and tips!

Themumsnot - did you get any floor tiles from "Tons of Tiles"? I need to cover 50 m2 of flooring downstairs and did get a quote from Topps at £59 p2m for a porcelain floor tile. TOT much much cheaper and I have found another tile almost the same. Samples tiles on order waiting for delivery. Thanks for the tip. Hope they are the business, could save me £2,000. Fingers crossed.

Sandgroper - no just wall tiles. We went for engineered wood on the floor - it is a Victorian house and the new room is made up of four previously seperate spaces with different subfloors so we could never have got it level enough for tiles. Got wall tile samples from both the companies I linked to though and they all seemed good quality.

Absolutely loving this thread ladies :)

In the middle of a mega (and uncordinated) renovation that we DH are largely doing ourselves.

The kitchen is being plastered as we speak and will soon be a blank canvas for me to put in it exactly what I want. Budget pending of course. This thread is enormously helpful. I would have never have thought of things like, no bins on underfloor heating because of the smell and big drawers under the work surface rather than cupboards - geniuses!! Plus I'm definitely going to explore hot water taps and metallic knife strips.

I do have a couple of questions that you may / may not be able to answer:

• built in fridge / freezer with cupboard storage above (to ceiling height) or standalone fridge freezer. We have an alcoves either side of the old fireplace that will house the new Rangemaster (pulls fists back, closes and eyes and shouts "yes" at this win). One of them is 110cm wide. I want to put a pull out larder in here and the fridge-freezer too. Someone mentioned that built in fridge-freezers are the work of the devil. Why?

• are open shelves really that bad? We had planned to keep it open, light and airy because the previous owners kitchen was full of minging cupboards and was really oppressive. I am good at culling crap but not so good at cleaning I also don't have children yet, so I may be living in a rose tinted world where cupboards are not yet needed to hide mega packets of crisps.

• is a beverage centre / wine fridge worthwhile or a waste of space and money?! see I told you I had rose tinted newly married no children spectacles on :) But they look really useful (and cool).

Thanks all, you've inspired me for an afternoon of kitchen planning and researching work can wait until tomorrow

princesschick - we have a freestanding fridge/freezer with a cupboard above it - so it is not neccesarily one or the other - Personally, I don't like built in ones because they tend to be more expensive and limit your choice when replacing them.

Open shelves - yes, really that bad. Even leaving asside the clutter accumulation issue, they get gunky. Revoltingly so. We have a whole run of shallow cupboards for cookery books which I love because on that mythical day when I get the kitchen really tidy then everything would be behind doors.

Squiggle interesting. Definitely food for thought. The shelves are more for things like my juicer, food processor etc to keep off the counter to allow for food prep. We had also planned to have book shelves above the kitchen table and a radio because I refuse to have a telly in the kitchen But still I take your point. Open shelves and my crappy cleaning does worry me slightly. Hmm. And for me the energy efficiency of the fridge is most important so maybe freestanding with cupboard above could work. Do you have much of a gap around your fridge-freezer. Thank you :)

I like open shelves.

But yes, no kids here either. My lovely, lovely open shelves in our old house used to be by the cooker and have saucepans etc on them. Much better than groping around in cupboards. Here in the crap rented, the saucepans are on a carousel and it's bloody awful.

I guess a compromise would be shallow cupboards, but I just can't get over the closed in feeling wall cupboards give.

MadBusLady as the open shelves will only be along one wall and above the counter which will be used for prep I am still toying with this one. I really don't like feeling boxed in by cupboards. Maybe I just need to learn to clean more. We do have quite a big kitchen (3.5 x 4m) but it will need to be utility and dining room too. I guess shelves are cheaper than cupboards and if they are that bad they could always be replaced in the future...

When my kitchen was made, I told them I didn't want any corner carousels. They put in two carousels in the corner German and very well made and I loathe them. I swear and groan every time I open the door and I'm not a sweary person.

I have a 4 oven Aga and a gas hob. I love both and find them exceptionally easy to keep clean.

What's difficult to clean on a gas hob?