The MN lessons learnt kitchen thread.

[jollydiane]

I have read loads of kitchen threads so here is my conclusions.

1. Plan for where you bin is going to go.
2. Handless kitchens look lovely but can wind you up.
3. Floor Tiles look stunning but can be a bugger to keep clean.
4. Splash-backs are very practical for cleaning and can look stunning although some of you think they look naff.

What else should I add to the list before I make my purchase?

The one area I'm really stuck on is flooring. I want something that I can use my lakeland steam mop on (another MN suggestion) which I love.

Our Ikea kitchen was in place when we moved in 14 years ago. It's showing its age now, but is not really on its last legs yet.

This thread is making me miserable now. My kitchen is shite. Unfortunately we have no spare money and redoing it would required, actually rebuilding the whole house... It is far too small and stupidly designed for a family of 5, including 3 growing human dustbins boys. The only way we could get more space is to extend outwards; and to do this, we'd also have to excavate some garden AND reinstall a new central heating boiler AND all the pipes, because they are cast iron and you can't just replace one section. And if that happened, we'd have to replumb, refloor and replaster the whole house and put in a new bathroom.

Bah. It means we're going to be living in a cupboard for a kitchen forever, probably, with no lovely hot water boiler, anti-burglar draws and power dust.

Oh Wilf at least you know how to spell drawer. Get yourself an steam mop and cup cake.

oh, I forgot about the drawer with the step.

We are having our kitchen planned by a friend who is a German kitchen planner. As in a German person who plans kitchens, not a person who plans German kitchens. Although most of the kitchens he plans happen to be German cause he is German and lives in Germany.

Oh, shut up, Lindor.

Anyway.

He is due to deliver the most wondrous of plans soon so I will share all his wonderful wisdom with you all. I am sure that he talked about drawer steps doodahs.

Optiplan have the cunning step thing. Basically, its where the plinth is and looks like the plinth but when you pull it out it miraculously unfolds and turns into a step allowing you to reach the above-the-usual-top-of-wall-unit-cupboards or, if you don't have those, the dust where those cupboards should be. I am seriously considering getting our kitchen from Optiplan as they are the only people I have found who offer it. This is despite the fact that a similarish kitchen from Wickes or similar is half the price and I could get them to design a kitchen with a gap for a folding stool which I could probably pick up in Ikea or somewhere for about £4.99

On a more serious note, this thread has completely converted me to utensils on the wall but I'm not so sure about knives as toddler DD often sits on the work top to "help" or just chat as I'm worried she'd cut herself.

But your toddler won't be sitting on the worktops for much longer. Soon she will be a sullen pre-teen grumping at you from behind her fringe.

You can always keep them in a drawer for now, and put them on the wall later.

do you keep your other dangerous things, like bleach, dishwasher tablets, white spirit, matches, toasters and kettles in drawers?

I'm not convinced about bins under the kitchen sink. We've got that just now for the first time and I find it a PITA having to stand away from the sink to chuck something away (or to have to leave the door to it wide open). I much preferred a big transportable bin (which I could move close to me when I needed (eg when chopping up vegetables)

Wilfself - thanks re drawers. It was hurting my eyes too.

To whoever suggested the Fisher and Paykel double dishwasher, I've always fancied one however it doesn't get good reviews here www.productreview.com.au/p/fisher-paykel-dishdrawer.html

Pigletjohn: We had huge drawers and the toaster had its own space when we'd finished with it.
All cleaning products in a small wall cupboard. Much easier and safer than under sink and we never had to have cupboard locks.

MissPerception we had a Fisher and Paykel dishwasher for 7 years and didn't have that experience. It washed well, but does need cleaning out every week (which doesn't take long). Only had to call someone to fix it once and was pleasantly surprised at the cost of the parts. We will get another one when we redo the current kitchen next year.

thanks jicky for the step stool recommendation! Funnily enough that looks very similar to one my mum (also short) had in our kitchen when I was growing up.

now, off to work out whether one could be retro fitted inside our (currently empty and pointless) plinth space. Or hung inside a cupboard door.

You need more sockets than you think you do!

IMPORTANT any electrical work you do in your kitchen (or bathroom) beyond replacing old with new is notifiable. You or your electrician needs to inform the council.

You will be asked for proof of this when you sell your house, and the buyers could use a lack of documentation as a bargaining tool, or demand you get it checked / insured then.

Also not complying might put you at risk of fines I think.

(I'm a bit wooly on the consequences as have just found out mid sale that we should have done this!)

aufaniae - how would anyone know when you had installed any electrical work in a kitchen?? Sounds like when I was replacing windows in my 1900s flat. Was told I needed planning permission (oh yeah...council money making scheme). No way Jose.

What I would say about deep drawers is that it's helpful having the sides and back, as deep as the front. I've got wooden drawers but you can get clip-on bits to fill the gap above the drawer side and "gallery rail". That way things don't fall out of it.

What I've learnt about kitchens is that there is far more choice available from the manufacturers than the limited choice in say a B&Q or Wickes catalogue. Different sizes of unit, shelf configurations, trims and interior fittings.

Also that the kitchen fitter is basically a carpenter so can quite often customise something that's not in the standard range out of extra shelves, worktops or decor panels.

I don't know why but our integrated dishwasher (a bosch) hasn't integrated well. It has gaps both sides, a big chunk cut out of the plinth underneath so the door opens and a rubber flap thing under the door that keeps un-tucking itself and hanging out like a shirt. Anyone else have this?

Am currently doing the rounds of kitchen shops so this thread is fab.

One question - I have seen some proper fab cath kidson spotty lino www.harveymaria.co.uk/Floor-Range/Cath-Kidston-for-harveymaria

Price is sending DH stratospheric - anyone seen this type of thing anywhere else?

Missper:

The new regulations are safer and better documented. The standard colours for cables were changed at about the same time the regulations changed, and old-colours cable is now unobtainable through official channels.

There is however a thriving trade in it, at high prices, on Ebay. I can't think why...

Is it better to get a third party installer - e.g. local builder or use the kitchen company's own installation service?

When you sell your house you will be asked if you have done any electrical work since 2005.

MissPerception If you choose to lie and hope for the best that's your choice!

But I suspect a decent surveyor will be looking out for work which looks like it's recent, and the further we get away from 2005, the more obvious it will be.

Also if you want to mention your brand new kitchen as a selling point, probably best to have it all properly registered!

Just saying as I wish we'd known.

goldmedal

I recommend asking around for good tradesmen, and getting an electrician to do the electrics, a plumber to do the plumbing, a plasterer to do the plastering (all in that order please), a joiner to fit the cabinets, and a tiler to do the tiling.

Kitchen fitters are notorious for poor-quality and non-compliant electrical and plumbing work, there are plenty of skilled tradesmen who are underemployed.

A general builder will either be a jack-of-all trades, or employ general workmen, or farm the skilled work out to professionals and add on his own profit. That might suit you if you think that general builders prevent you having problems. Most general builders have one trade that they are quite skilled at, and can made a fair effort at everything else.

Personal recommendation, from someone who will show you the standard of recent similar work, is the best way to go.

alli1968 we have the Harvey Maria cath kidston tiles in the bathroom! I love them, and they feel nice underfoot, but I'm not sure I'd use them again. They are basically just tiles that you stick on the floor next to each other, so any slight gaps are quite obvious. I think the design would be better if they clicked together like some laminate floors do. Although maybe our fitter just wasn't that great, and the room shape is a bit wonky. Also, I'm not sure they would be hard wearing enough for a kitchen? Having said that they haven't scratched at all, and we've had them nearly 2 years.
Currently planning a kitchen extension to get rid of the world's worst kitchen that I have been living with for the past 2 years and 2 weeks, so getting loads of top tips from this thread!

Oh, also, re the price, they worked out cheaper than fairly basic (and unattractive) vinyl as we could buy exactly the amount we needed, whereas with the vinyl there would have been quite a bit of wastage.

Piglet, but won't that lengthen the process as we will have to wait for one lot to finish and the next e.g. the plasterer, to be available and make it hard to co-ordinate them all?

I know a couple of good building companies locally but yes I guess that means paying their considerable margin on top.

Yikes about the electrical work in bathrooms. Can the certification be done retrospectively?

goldmedal That is why I used a kitchen company who provided a whole service, they project managed it and got the right tradesmen in at the right times. I reckon what it cost us extra it saved us in terms of time, stress and paying people extra because their jobs took longer because of hold ups.