Is the selection process as bad as grammar?

[MizzyDazzy]

We are currently thinking we will send our two children to private secondary school because we live in a bit of a black spot for state secondary schools and, while there are some grammar options, I didn't think these were right for my eldest (too early to tell for youngest).

My eldest is doing fine at school, but she is dyslexic and more interested in art and sports. At my kids' school there is a lot of pressure around grammar and a lot of the kids are heavily tutored, with about 70% making it into grammar as a result. But we have decided this is not right for her.

However, I came across this article today suggesting the process is just as awful for private schools https://www.thetimes.com/life-style/parenting/article/private-school-11-plus-hsmpc9gl9

So I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance... is this just for the super selective private schools? We are looking at ones that say they are mixed ability and consider 'the whole child' when making a decision. Even so, I'm now starting to worry that my eldest will be unprepared.

My DD is meeting expected levels at her primary school in all areas and sometimes hits greater depth in some tests. This is other than spelling, which is dire. But school said they can discount that due to the dyslexia. I know the VR and NVR aren't done at schools, but we found out via the dyslexia test that my daughter was quite good at those. However, we haven't done any tutoring for any of the 11+ tests... and now I'm wondering if we need to?

But equally, I was going for private so that we didn't have to put her through this so do I need to consider the same is the case for private and start seriously considering how we get a state non selective that we are comfortable with (i.e. move!).

Also, what are the interviews like? My DD is very shy.... what sort of things would she be asked?

If anybody knows them, we are currently looking at Radnor Sevenoaks and Farringtons. Daughter is year 4 atm.

Any insights would be appreciated - hopefully that article has made me worry over nothing!

Oh and just to add, Bethany tend to teach using sets from Year 7 or 8 for English and Maths. A bright pupil with Dyslexia can easily be in the top set for Maths and perhaps set 1 or 2 for English, with additional Dyslexia support.

There’s no “You have Dyslexia so bottom set is the best place to support you” mentality.

It depends on the school but look at the individual tests required. They will suit different strengths and weaknesses. Lots now doing ISEB but some only doing cat4s. Others doing group exercises, interviews and written. If you’re in any doubt, try and pick schools with different assessment processes.

Thanks I hadn't heard of Bethany, had a quick look at their website and looks great, but unfortunatley probably a bit far away for us to manage at the moment as the cloesest bus stop on their routes is 9.5 miles away from us and a 20 minute car journey to it.

Thanks that's helpful / a good perspective.

If youre looking at bromley high and farringtons, I would suggest looking at babington aswell. Bromley high would be more competitive than farringtons and babington. I know someone with dyslexia at babington and another one starting september.

Thanks, yes we’ve looked at Babington. I loved the ethos but my DD is very sporty and the site is so small there seemed v little on offer for that.

Agree with a pp that you’re making a mountain out of a molehill here OP! But I totally get how you r ended up with this thinking as that’s what being in a competitive grammar school area does to you, even if you’re not targeting a grammar school. Speaking from experience! I know Radnor House Sevenoaks and it’s not particularly competitive to get into, certainly not in the same league as, say, Sevenoaks. Agree Bethany great shout, shame you’re too far. My DD is dyslexic and was offered a place. We ultimately went elsewhere but I was v impressed by them and KC Pembury as well… they are welcoming boys into the senior school from this September, boys already at the prep so your DS wouldn’t be in a tiny minority as many will go all through from prep now. I’d pick two or three you like, do thf entrance assessment, you’ll be fine. Also do a state application as well though as back up!

I think the bit you’re worrying about “she’s bright but dyslexic and not top of the class” actually matters a lot less for most independents than for grammar.
At interview they’re not really testing academic level. They’re quietly checking: can this child hold a conversation with an adult, cope with being slightly out of their comfort zone, and will they engage in school life. Some of the kids who struggle most once they arrive are the very coached exam-perfect ones who freeze when a teacher asks an open question like “what do you enjoy doing when nobody tells you what to do?”
For a shy child the best preparation honestly isn’t tutoring i thinks it’s practicing speaking to adults. Let her order food, ask questions on open days herself, talk to the tour guide rather than standing behind you. By the time September comes, the children who can look up and answer naturally almost always come across far better than the ones giving rehearsed answers.

My daughter is in year 6, so has just been through the process of applying to secondary school.

The level of stress depends on the school and I think also the number of schools you apply to (it seems to be the norm that children are entered for 5 or 6 highly competitive and academic independent schools within Central London).

I think we live in similar areas in that we are in the shadow of a pair of super-selective state schools very similar to Newstead/St Olave’s. The cohort applying to the local independent schools therefore represent a wider range of academic abilities.

My daughter applied to our local independent school as we felt it allowed the correct balance for her. She has a non-academic ambition but is academically able. We worried that specialist training or grammar school would each close doors to her at an age when her potential facility and true interest can’t be known.

I would say that her experience of the admission process was much less stressful than her classmates who applied to the grammar school. Most seem to start tutoring in year 4 or earlier. The competition was much higher, and the children knew and felt it, particularly the pressure of everything coming down to the performance on one day.

My daughter had an interview and an entrance exam (maths/english/creative writing, no VR or NVR), then an assessment morning for a specialist scholarship and an assessment afternoon for the academic scholarship (which was team-working and problem-solving, which she said was enormously fun).

Everyone we saw at these assessments was friendly and enthusiastic. I really felt that the environment was such that she would have been able to show the best of herself at each opportunity.

I observed very nice touches in the process. For example, the couple of children applying from her school had consecutive interviews, so they saw a familiar face. She applied from a state primary, so that was particularly helpful as she hadn’t been prepped for interview, and her lot were noticeably less poised than the prep school children. They were invited to bring something of importance to them (essentially an ice-breaker prop). The admission team in the waiting area were chatting to the children about their item before the interview, so there was little time to build up nerves and the child was warmed up by the time of the actual interview itself.

So for us, it was an entirely positive experience.

only the top 30 out of all private schools are selrctive, most private schools are not selective

Thanks, I’ve heard a few negative things about Farringtons. I’d be interested to know your experience of the schools - have you had children at both or taught at them?

It depends where you live. Outside of London /SE most independent schools are just trying to fill their places and it's a question of bums on seats.
Our local public school was pretty prestigious when I was a kid but now it takes a very wide church. Some kids are very bright and some 3rd or even 4th quartile. Some private schools get no better average results than below average state schools so it's very much horses for courses.

I've got kids are Farringtons and I don't believe their selection process is as bad as grammar. I believe they're all inclusive, there is a test to get in, but I don't believe it's difficult, it's age appropriate. Reach out to them. Personally I love Farringtons and they are amazing at supporting kids with SEND needs. I know it has a reputation of being 'non-academic' but if your kids are very clever, the school won't hold them back. Personally I love how well-rounded Farringtons is and there is so much opportunity to get involved in music, art, sports, etc... I think it's a great school. Good luck with your choice x