Helping learning times tables??

[andirobobo]

Ok - back from Parents Evening and DD (8) in Yr 3 is struggling with maths as she does not know her tables very well.

Talking to her - she thinks she knows them as she can recite the pattern -eg- 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 ,etc but if you ask "What is 6 x 2" she cannot give the answer very easily.

So a crash course in tables is needed - anyone have any sure fire ways to learn it as I can see a battle ahead!

Thanks!

Are kids still required to learn up to 12x or do they stop at 10x each number now?

10x on the whole - 12x only really had relevance when there were pounds, shillings and pence.

Hello, my best tip involves making flash cards out of cereal boxes and putting all the questions on them and sometimes backwards too. Start with the easy ones and move on to more difficult ones. You can make it funny and a game.

So you can practise the chanting, two times two is four etc, and then do the flash cards.

If she is bored it can help to request the answers in a deep voice next one squeaky voice next one style of Spongebob next one sing it etc etc.

Depending on how sensitive she is about it you can react differently when she gets it wrong. Mine were quite tough and I could say "that is so wrong, you lose and I get to chew your arms off" etc etc but then you know your daughter and how she'll react to however you'll do it

About Y2?

If you do the 2 x 2 = it's better than 2 4 6 8. They can absorb it before they understand it. Once they're old enough to understand it, they have the facts of multiplication at their fingertips.

I wouldn't wait for "understanding" before starting to teach her myself. Don't see the point.

dd is in year 1 and is covering her 2's, 5's and 10's but more in a pattern.

DS is year 3 and it's mostly recall, he is very good, I am rubbish

We have found just random shout out whats 6x8? gets the brain working and asking for more questions

DD also yr1 (she is 6yo in May) and they are doing 2,5 and 10 times tables already.

DS is year 3 and his maths recall is faster than mine however he plays darts and this is a big help!

love the idea of the post-it notes around the house - excellent

What's the rush? I wouldn't start teaching times tables before they were capable of understanding them - it'll be much too hard to learn them, the child will have no idea of how to apply their knowledge and you risk putting them off Maths for life as you will bore them to tears. Make sure their knowedge of addition and subtraction are firmly in place.

No it won't. They are like sponges when they're little. Get them in there, make it fun, whatever, then they know them. Doesn't matter if they don't understand them at first.

The way they teach maths these days could have been designed to put them off for life! Don't underestimate your daughter andi!

Interesting approach to teaching - memorise first, understand later - good luck with that. Don't think I'm convinced though - it's much easier to learn something if you understand it - why do things the hard way?

Yes, sure: why not? Worked for millions of children in the past. You do the explaining alongside and for different children at different times it will click.

What if some children never understand? At least they know. It's not like labour camp. Fifteen minutes of chanting every day at school with your friends. So what? No big deal. Makes it so much easier for them in Y5 and Y6 when they're doing fractions, decimals, algebra. Now doing those without a firm grasp of times tables really will put you off maths.

I wasn't suggesting leaving the learning of times tables till Yr5. Most kids start learning timetables in Yr2 - when most are capable of understanding the principles behind it. Starting the process in Yr2 gives them lots of time to learn them all by Yr5 if needed. No objection to them starting earlier than Yr2 if they have the ability to understand what they are doing.

Would you apply the same approach to reading by teaching children to read by decoding - without being mindful of comprehension or understanding? Allowing that to happen later if at all?

agree with probonbon. It worked in the past. All of these teachers over centuries weren't stupid. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So everyone achieved great things in Maths the past? That's news to me!

is it really?

is it also news to you that 115000 children left primary school last year two years behind the expected maths ability?

I wonder how many did 20 years ago?

Reading isn't a tool in the way that multiplication is. Times tables are a tool.

I have seen children read with enormous ability like that. I don't know if I recommend it but the children I've seen who've learned to read with some element of that haven't been left behind. Comprehension does catch up. But reading isn't the same as the times tables.

A better comparision is to say times tables are like learning verbs in a foreign language. You just have to learn them. They're a tool to be used to decode the language, just as times tables are a tool. The longer you delay learning them, the harder it is, because you're more likely to get bored with the best way of learning them -- which is by chanting and rote.

Why don't you find out and come back and tell me? Then we can talk about it.

we know that standards have dropped across the board. Look at old 11+ maths papers and you can see that the standard was higher.

"115000 children left primary school last year two years behind the expected maths ability" if you don't know any other stats how do you know this is worse that before? It's a pretty meaningless statement without the rest of the figure to back it up.
And how do you know whether teaching a child the timetables in nursery school is going to make the slightest bit of difference to their final grading in primary school?

in Switzerland, our dc were taught the times tables using a triangle system, starting with the simpler ones, then progressing, here's a picture,
They each had their own mini set, I made my own to use at home. It's a great system, as you can use it backwards for division as well.
The example is a triangle with 3, 4 & 12. So you can cover eg the 3 and ask what times 4 is 12, or 12 divided by 4 is..? for example, so they learn it all really thoroughly. Then cover a different one of the 3 corners and ask the same types of Q. My dc know heir times tables backwards forwards and inside out, and learnt them v. quickly and easily with this method.

yes that looks like a good traditional way relying on repetition and memorisation. Similar to the old covering part of the paper by hand, attempting it, and then having a look at the answer.

Another quick suggestion- does your DD like dancing? With my Yr 4 class we do times table macarena. It's basically just chanting but we put the actions in as well, so

1x5 = 5 (Right arm out straight)
2x5 = 10 (left arm straight)
etc etc.

Most classes Ive taught love it, and of course you can use whatever dance moves you like as long as you have ten separate movements.

This website is great fun - you get to use your maths knowledge to play against people around the world.

www.tutpup.com

Can I just fling in one other thought.

It is VITAL that division facts are taught at the same time as the multiplication facts. So 5x4=20 therefore 20/4=5 etc.

I left a post on another discussion about using a triangle to help visualise this relationship. The product goes at the top with the factors at the two bottom coners. Add a x symbol between the bottom two and a division symbol between the top and each of the bottom ones (hope you can follow this!!) A diagram would be so much simpler.

Anyway the point is you can then use your knowledge of multiplication to find the division facts. 20/4 becomes "What did I have to multiply 4 by to get 20?"

Hope this helps!
(ps I teach y3 and this has revolutionised my classes learning this year).