Great State Primary vs Excellent private prep

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Hi-
We are is in the fortunate position to have been offered out first choice for both Primary State school ( Hampden Gurney which is one of the best state school in the country) and all boy Independant Prep (Hereward House) .

HG offer came out as a bit of a surprise as it is highly oversubscribed and prior to the offer we had already made up our mind on HH which we absolutely loved for our son. The school seems very nurturing while also being very academic and we thought the small structure will suit him very well as he can be a bit shy.

From a logistical point of view though, HH would be much more difficult as I also have a daughter entering reception in sep26 (unknown where for now bit if my son goes to State I am hoping that she will have a place too for next year ).
Distance wise HG is a 25min walk while HH is 25min by tube or 15min by car , but not walkable.

Obviously it would also be nice to save the tuition but I am willing to commit financially if private is the obvious better choice.

I should also add that
-we are both working full time with quite demanding jobs
-we would like our kids to go to private secondary.

I am conscious that both choices will probably fine, would appreciate any advice of parents who went through similar dilemma and get a better understanding of how feasible it is to go from a state primary to great private secondary ( and what it entails in terms of tutoring etc)

Thanks.

Yes, HG being one of the top school in the country is what makes this such a difficult choice (and keeps me awake at night! )
I spoke to parents from HG, and it does seem like a LOT of parent involvement ( and possibly tutoring) is necessary. It is a very competitive environment ( esp past year1).

Ultimately, it probably comes down to each kid personality, my son is bright but quite gentle and sensitive and I think a more nurturing and personalised environment ( less than 30kids per class) would suit him best. But I have no doubt that some kids would thrive in HG environment and that it is an excellent school.

I have the leavers destination and yes it is impressive for a state school.

Your private option is tiny though - 16 boys in a year? I'd be worried about its financial viability in light of the VAT change.

thanks- that is a very valid point, the school is small, single form , 18 kids in the class. It is over subscribed ( they told us about 120 applicants for 12-15 places due to siblings), but how can i assess their financial viability without further information and weigh this in the final decision?

i would compare the following:
class sizes
teacher/TA ratio
how many specialist teachers, at a private prep I would expect PE, languages, art, music and drama to all be taught by specialist teachers. With perhaps maths/english and science in the later years.
facilities
opportunities offered outside the curriculum
opportunities to stretch those that need it and what extra support offered is for those that need it.
in the younger years how often they listen to each child read. At a private prep I’d expect this to be every day.
homework expectations
behaviour policies
if you are looking at private secondaries, I’d be asking all schools what they do to prepare children for the entrance exams

thank you, that is very useful.
Do you have an equivalent list for the expectations for a state school?

OP HH is a privately owned school -not a registered company so you cannot see their financials online and cannot assess their viability.

Be careful with the being over subscribed tagline - lots of parents will apply to multiple schools (5?6?) and then choose one, so if you don't get at least that number applying then you risk not filling your classes.

The last leavers classes have been much smaller than 18 as well. That is a very small friendship pool and very small sports team pool.

HH is a privately owned school -not a registered company so you cannot see their financials online

Is that true?
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00752447

The company is small enough so that it doesn't provide profit and loss accounts, but the balance sheets indicate that Shareholders' Funds have been falling by about £500,000 a year for the last several years. That doesn't necessarily mean that the company has been running at a loss, merely that it has been paying out more in dividends than it has been earning. But they can't keep that up much longer as the Shareholders' Funds stood at about £1,240,000 on 31 Aug 2023 (their 2023-2024 accounts are due shortly).

Go private and leave the place for someone else.

agree HH is an great school, though please be do check with them about their finances (it's a v v small school) and succession ensuring they dont sell to private equity since ownership is quite old now and head been there quite some time.

would probably pick the best state primary in the UK vs some average pre-prep...

hereward house is hardly an average pre-prep/prep

State for me for primary. I currently have two teenagers in secondary, one in private other in state. Both had state primary.

IME state primary is better for learning life experience and working with a wide range of people. Kids I know who have been private al through seem to be a bit wide eyed and naive about the real world.

I do feel that in the end all those preps have the exact same destinations schools. I currently have my 2 in private as well (which is likely to continue as we weren't lucky with state admissions). I am personally just questioning whether those "great pre preps" are actually 8k a term better.
Personally I would take HG any day over any pre-prep

As a parent at HG, I shall give my lengthy views, and note this is personal. I couldn't be happier with HG.

Academically, HG is unique to other state schools since it is consistently ranked among the top 5 on national tables, year on year. Few schools retain that.

Sorry to focus on stats, but am just highlighting that HG is not the same as the median Outstanding state school. In fact, HG recently lost its Outstanding rating, but subsequently went on to achieve one of the highest SATs scores in the country and is currently no.1. Parenting is huge as mentioned, but the school itself is competitive and on a budget!

Facilities, alas it's a far cry from plush private school grounds. For example, a fundraise at HG would be stunning if they achieve £40k on raffle night. That's a mere 20% more than the fee for a single private school student alone. School lunches initially they were atrocious but we got round it with packed lunch. It's mostly frozen foods, but standards have improved. In contrast, somewhere like Hereward House probably stocks organically.

Tutoring was asked... Just because a parent may send their child to a private school, it doesn't mean they don't additionally tutor.. especially when they have the financial means and parents are pushy. A lot of parents that send their kids to private pre-prep can only get them into top 7+ 8+ 11+ and 13+ due to tutors rather than schools. I even heard about handwriting classes. If my state school child needs to compete with that for a secondary school place, then I have to acclimatize although I hate spoon-feeding. So responsible tutoring will be needed and not rout learning.

Most importantly, my child loves HG, loves the teachers, loves the environment, and would be distraught if upended to a new environment where everyone has a perception about life because of their grand houses, grand holidays, and daddy's slush funds. We may eventually end up that way from 11+, but it depends on private school as well. For now, I don't need the financial and emotional disruption... It will eventually come.

I am really curious about this because you hear over and over again that it doesn't really make a difference in primary- can you share your thoughts on this a bit more please?

When people say it doesn’t make a difference they usually mean in terms of ultimate exam scores. I personally don’t think exam scores are a particularly accurate reflection of what a good education does or doesn’t achieve, it just captures the easy to measure aspects.

primary education shapes children’s approach to learning, their sense of self and interpersonal relationships. While our ‘outstanding’ village primary probably achieves similar literacy rates and would test similar to our private school when adjusted for socioeconomic factors, it doesn’t do early as well fostering a love of reading and writing, doesn’t support independent inquiry to the same level, nor does it spend the same amount of time exploring what it means to be a good friend or resolve interpersonal conflict. None of those things will ever show up on a test, but I think they are critical aspects of lifetime happiness and success.

Those early years are also key for building some skills like sport, art and music that can be more difficult to pick up later in life, especially if not a natural area of interest. I want my non-sporty children to develop basic skills and a bit of confidence - they may never play that sport outside of school lessons but they will know how to play on a team and support each other, and even if they hate most sports they try, there might be one that they really love and play for life. For other things that they are more passionate about it makes such a difference to have a school that fully supports that interest - if we were at our state primary it would be difficult to manage more than one music lesson a week, but in our private school they have 5-6 opportunities a week between school - arranged 1:1 lessons as well as whole class group lessons and in-school extracurriculars

This is an interesting point, and I agree with much of what you have said, especially regarding sport and music provision at prep school.

However, whilst I think that the advantages and disadvantages of each sector are unique to individual schools and children, there are also some general disadvantages (as well as the outlined advantages!) to prep school, in my opinion.

We had planned to privately educate our children, but are moving the eldest to state school after her pre-school year at prep. The facilities are undoubtedly fantastic, and the staff are great, but our experience has exacerbated our real reservations about exposure to such a bubble of privilege at a young age. No matter what private school parents may say, the socioeconomic mix is very limited, for obvious reasons. Our concern is that the knock on effects of this is potentially more harmful than the benefits of extracurricular activities, which we hope to be able to support to some extent outside of school.

I’m sure this issue doesn’t apply to the same extent in every school, and I’m sure it’s something that lots of parents are able to mitigate, but it’s something that has really put us off prep. I want my children to be part of the local community and to be at ease with mixing in that circle (I’m aware that this will be limited to an extent by school catchment, but it’s still much more diverse than a prep environment).

Private prep, if you can possibly make it work. There are just so many advantages - smaller classes, school knows you’re aiming for private secondary and prides itself on getting pupils to the best secondary destinations, great facilities qns oportunities.

@Fizzyg you might be surprised by how much of a monoculture many state schools are, especially at primary school level where catchments are smaller and therefore more likely to be uniform. The three nearest primaries are all in fairly expensive villages where the socioeconomic diversity isn’t profoundly different from our private school. Our private school at least offers greater cultural diversity. We started off in one of these state village schools, and by comparison see far less flaunting of wealth in private.

secondary schools will pull from a broader area with greater diversity at the state options

I agree with this.

Private for primary is for these reasons only IMHO: SEN child who'd benefit from smaller classes, child who otherwise wouldn't pass entrance exams for senior school, poor state options.

Damn - forgot to quote!

I can imagine this is the case in “leafy village” type primaries. And I totally accept that the socioeconomic mix of a state school is limited by its catchment, which can impact diversity.

We are in an inner city area, so cultural diversity is pretty broad at any school (probably less so in the private sector as there are certain groups who seem to strongly favour this setting) and socioeconomic diversity is more embedded.

.

HG is diverse because it's Zone 1, Marylebone / Paddington. It's like an international school.

I'd also say mental model is reasonably strong at HG. It has good results partly due to academic focus but also because the school embraces hard work and willingness to learn. I don't believe money and private school has a monopoly in fostering that at all.

Comparing HG to a private... A private school teaches better formality and etiquette and offers better all round curriculum through facilities and types of coaches/teachers. But this is undemanding to supplement financially if you have saved £25k a year.

Loads of HG kids go to private secondary. They publish a list almost every yr.

Surely “state till 8” applies here and you can see how your son gets on. I can’t imagine there will be an issue getting a place at a private school at 7/8 given the economic circumstances of most people.

And pay for a nanny with fees saved.