When to start preparing for 11+ / entry to secondary?

[Realdeal1]

Hi, i am thinking of trying to get my summer born child (currently 8 and in year 3) into a better secondary school. We are in north london. Finances mean i want to avoid the tutoring route but would like to start her on some additional books at home/bond books to ease her in rather than home doing nothing. It wont be the end of the world if she doesnt get in - its just at the current school, the more able children seem to be being left to their own devices a bit.

When would people advise prepping for these entrance exams?

My kids did some BOFA familiarisation for the 11+ in the summer holidays prior to year 6 and that was it. They all passed with good marks and easily got into the local grammar. No tutoring needed.
If the kids have the natural aptitude, they'll be fine. All this 2years prior to the 11+ crazy.

I actually think Atom did help my DD the most with her learning. Paper based exams are good to get used to the format, but not for actual learning. Atom is great as it gives you the answer straight away and very detailed explanation which is super useful.

I would say Y5 is a great start of more serious prep. Y4 maybe good to have some extra 10 minute bond tests but no formal tutoring. They are simly too little at that point.

@pipsquiggle in terms of exam board, for the NL consortium, how can I tell which board they use so I can get the relevant books?

@Realdeal1 which schools are in the NL consortium?

They usually have the exam board on the admissions page on school website

Hi, Channing, Queens, Francis Holland

The board looks to be ISEB. I like the idea of paper based and shorter tests for year 4 so not to scare my children!

@EllyGi silly question but for Atom, fo you use laptops or tablets - is there a preference here as we are old school and have old laptops but is it worth me investing in tablets!

@Realdeal1 she mainly works on a tablet but has a keyboard attached to it. In the summer she worked on her dad's laptop as well, it's heavy though so she prefers the tablet as its more mobile and can be put on her lap.

Essex 11+ today and super selective grammars - 2-3% of children get a place and very different to other areas of UK like Kent where a much larger percentage get a place and being bright and looking at some Bond books without a tutor is enough. 12 months tutoring 1hr per week with an hour a week of tutor homework should be more than adequate. Over tutored students struggle when they get there. So those that spend 3 years preparing and do hours per day the summer before the exam and only scrape in tend to find themselves bottom of the class and stressed.

We're looking at Essex but I'm wondering if the hours tutoring plus hours homework a week we've started is too much and we should cut back to one hour, we already have 5 lots of school homework plus reading and spellings and a couple of after school clubs. I've know children that have been tutored and not got a space and I've known children just do a couple of practise papers before the exam and gain spaces, the ever increasing competitiveness to gain spaces is making it feel like a flipping tall order though.

This first sentence. 100%.

Getting in is just the start. It is not just about struggling to keep up, but how it affects your self-esteem.

I went to a super-selective grammar school. I think a friend of mine didn’t fulfil her potential because she went to my school. She was always near the bottom of the class, and I think this made her feel that she wasn’t very good, and she had mentally given up a bit by the time it got to GCSEs. The problem is that she was comparing herself to a cohort of incredibly academic peers. At the time, as a self-absorbed teen, I just thought that she wasn’t very interested in school as she also played class clown. I didn’t recognise that was a defence mechanism. I didn’t realise that she had stopped bothering with homework because she had given up.

I think she would have done better in the top or second set of a comp. Her confidence in her abilities is likely to have been better, and she would have hopefully then remained more motivated and engaged.

i recognise things are different nowadays, and that most children have tutoring even if very bright, but I still think it is an important point that is sometimes forgotten. I am not saying this is the case for any posters on this thread.

In answer to your question. OP, my daughter is in year 5. Most of her classmates who I know will be doing the 11-plus have been going to a tutor for a couple of years. There will of course be others who will either be studying quietly themselves or will take a punt with much less prep.

i understand from my friend who teaches there, that our closest girls’ grammar has recently changed its exam to try to make it as difficult to tutor for as possible to try to level the playing field. Very few children from the immediate vicinity of the school have applied there historically, and they are making concerted efforts to give the opportunity to bright local children, and to try to reassure all parents that their child does not need to be heavily tutored to get a place. I don’t know how achievable that is, as the tutors will surely always catch up with the changes. I also don’t think it will reduce tutoring. I think quite the opposite will happen as the pool of available places for children outside catchment falls.

@Solent123 If you are thinking Essex Chelmsford/Colchester you’ll need a tutor for the English paper as a minimum - if your child is top 3% in year group at Maths and you are confident with Maths yourself you can use past papers and resources and teach them anything they haven’t covered at school for maths. Most don’t but it’s possible.

The English paper is not anything they’ve covered at school ( unless it’s a private prep school with 11+ lessons). Once they get to a super selective grammar they will have around 14 pieces of homework per week on top of longer days depending how close you live and after school activities and reading. The child needs to be self starting proactive and enjoy studying and learning.

Having a tutor for September to October half term and reviewing IF the child has this self motivation is key. The first 2-3 weeks will be an adjustment but if the child can’t get used to it and doesn’t enjoy the extra two hrs per week then they are not likely to enjoy grammar school.

Happy to answer any questions

@Fruitygal thank you, yes it is one of those two areas, the Grammar school actually has a shorter day than DS's current prep school which is definitely not a crammer / aimed at getting pupils into the Grammar. I don't know if they cover 11+ material in English lessons but I will ask this week, they do provide Atom and I think you can choose what school you're aiming for with Atom.

Have you seen the mathsconcierge online offering? they send one maths/eng piece a week and mark two pieces of creative writing a month and give extra support for weaker areas, I was wondering if that was good option?

Tutors with excellent 11+ results on 12 month programmes are better. Would always use face to face over online as they build a good rapport which increases confidence plus adapt teaching for your child to optimise learning.

you want to avoid the cost of tutoring but you want them to get into a fee paying school? Not sure you can square that circle, everyone else applying to those achools will be tutoring

@Blahblah34 selective state grammar schools are free but some exceed the best independent schools for results and experience.

@Fruitygal its actually tricky to find out the success rate for tutors as they tend to advertise the pass rates rather than the number of tutees that passed well enough to be offered a place. The person who runs the largest local tutoring organisation told me she didn't know how many of her last years students were offered places. Another ghosted me 😂

😂 @Solent123 she doesn’t know mmmmmm you’d definitely know it’s your business to know.

I’d anonymously ask other parents on a local community FB page who they have used. My DCs tutor no longer tutors which is a shame.