What should the school be doing about a child that is violent towards others in the classroom?

[CarGirl]

We're talking infant age here. One child is being increasing defiant towards the teacher and increasingly violent towards the other pupils. There have been 2 violent episodes in less than a fortnight in the class room (I mean something more than hitting).

What measures should be the school be putting in place to protect the other children in that class and also to help the violent child.

The school has just given the teacher a classroom assistant for half days only it just doesn't seem enough to stop what is going on?

You may find it more effective to raise this with the parent/s as well as the school. I would try to have other parents in the background when you do so (in case they get a bit temperamental). It might seem a bit scarey, but I would envisage that at the moment the parent/s concerned see this as a school versus them issue, and may be avoiding contact with the school because they know what they are going to be told. Therefore, perhaps not too much is being resolved.

However, being confronted (perhaps daily) by the parents of children who have been assaulted by their child might start to ram the message home that they have a problem that they need to sort out. I would be polite but firm and ask nicely for an agreement that this won't happen again. Its also useful to actually have the child there at the time, so he/she sees that there is a consequence to his/her poor behaviour ie. their mum/dad is going to be challenged about it fairly rapidly.

If the mum/dad comes out with a pile of excuses just stick to your facts that your child has been hurt by their child and is very upset by this, as are you, and you would like their assurance that this will not happen again.

I hope this helps.

Is assault a helpful word to use here?

Not meaning to sound like a wooly minded liberal here, but I think it would have to be pretty extreme before I used a word like that to describe what one small child does to another one.

'However, being confronted (perhaps daily) by the parents of children who have been assaulted by their child might start to ram the message home that they have a problem that they need to sort out.'

Just remember that mum and dad may well have been trying to put measures in place for years, and that whilst making sure school deals with it is fair enough, further adding to what can be heartbreaking time for the parents (its not nice to be beaten up by your own child) is not something to be considered lightly, or without due consideration.

As for asking them to take control of what happens in school- how? Short of accessing all avaialbel help and liasing regularly with teachers, there isn't much mroe they can do. We've been in the insidoius position of turning up at school to find a p[etition raised against DS1, but nobody could actually suggest any mroe we could do.

edam ... no what was said was that it takes time for children to8 get* used to the discipline in school which implies they were not discipline for hitting other children with bricks at home.

Seeker and Peachy have listed a series of useful things that the school could do; hopefully you will find that the school will start doing something. If not, you will have to keep badgering them. Refer to their anti-bullying policy (they're supposed to have one) and their duty to protect the children from violence and anything else you can find. Stay calm and emphasise that you are anxious for the situation to be sorted in the best way for everyone. Don't jump to conclusions about the family and don't expect the head to be prepared to discuss them- the head may well know things you don't.

If the school had to start by excluding the child, that would look like bad management to me; there's a whole load of other measures they should try first. It is difficult to see what effect exclusion would have to make the child better at anger management, particularly at this age.

My DS, who has SN, has been physically violent towards other children. Some parents complained in writing to the head which I feel helped get him a Welfare assistant to be with him at lunchtime.
The idea of being 'confronted' by those parents would have been horrifing.
I have been distraught just knowing he has hurt someone else, why would I have needed that?

I am so glad that my son doesn't go to your childs school. (i hope)

How nice that you seem to know the in's and out's of this childs business.
and what a joy the mother will have upon recieveing lots of threatening letters that have been past to the head.

But at least your child is perfect and never misbehaves. i hoe you feel very smug....ooh yes clearly you do.

If you have concerns then do bring them to the Head but in the spirit of 'what can be done to help' rather than blaming.

Mamazon,...I'm not sure that's really very fair!
In my experience ds1 had a boy in his class who had severe SN and was extremely aggressive. Kicking, biting, throwing furniture. The school couldn't cope at all, a lot of parents complained and then a lot of children left. This is a small village school, I'm talking 1/2 the year left. The school tried temporary exclusions, but it got to the stage where he was excluded very day. Eventually his carer moved him to another bigger school and he is like a different child. The new school has lots of techniques in place for dealing with his behaviour and he and his carer are much much happier. I didn't complain because this child liked my ds's but if ds1 had been on the receiving end of some of the injuries I saw, I would have had to try and protect him. We are now about to move to the school this boy is at, and I have no worries at all about his behaviour. It just goes to show what a good school is capable of IMO.

I certainly do not feel smug, my children are far from perfect however they don't go around attacking other children and inflicting nasty injuries on the. I am however very relieved my child is not in the same class. If I was called up to the school because my 5 year old needed medical treatment because they were attacked in the classroom I don't know what I would do, but I wouldn't be keen to send them back without something changing so it was far less likely to happen again.

Some of the parents who have complained (and I'm talking individually not after discussing between themselves) before the last 2 even nastier attacks were told that it was being dealt with and their would be some support in the class room. It turns out this support is an afternoon TA to help generally in the class, the latest attack happened despite this having now been but in place.

I only want to know what the parents whose children have been attacked/assaulted/hurt to the extent they have needed proper medical treatment can/should do to make the school do "something" to protect their children, one to one supervision would appear to be the only option that would/could work so why aren't the school providing it and what can the parents do to make the school provide this?

The parent is open about why their child acts in this way and most/all are sympathetic to the situation however I think most parents are beginning to struggle to continue sending their child to school every day knowing that there seems to be an increasing chance of them coming home hurt.

Thank you for those of you who have suggested putting it in writing, I hope this will give the school the ammunition they need to get the funding from where ever to help this troubled girl and protect the rest of the class.

cargirl I don't understand why some schools are able to access the correct resources and others not. In our village school this SN boy had no one on one at all even though it was patently obvious it was desperately needed. In his new school he has a TA/Senco with him all day.... So how did the new school sort this in 1 academic yr, where the old school didn't even get close in 3?
Definitely write to the school. It might help.

that's why I am trying to establish who would pay for it etc. I don't know perhaps the parents are not wanting/pushing for help and that makes a difference?

They seem in denial about how serious the issue is (they realise there is a problem though). Apparantly climbing on the school sheds is okay, she doesn't want to get caught in the game of chase...... It isn't a case of ASD/Aspergers SN, more a case of emotionally troubled so def SN in that respect.

Several of the Mum's at school have know the family for 20-30 years but the parents are very open themselves about what is going on including the fact that she needs more discipline and they are too soft on her. It's a very sad predicament all around, I really hope by putting pressure on the school they will be forced to provide the help needed? Or is that just unrealistic?

unfortunately I think that is a big issue.
Again another boy in Ds1's year, I can't even start to tell you about his SN... He's 8, extremely big for his age but has the development of a 4 year old. His parents are still denying that anything is wrong.

ingles2 , I feel very sorry for the child at our school because the longer she doesn't get help the harder it will be to help her IYSWIM?

Meanwhile the SN children in my dc's classes (who both started school statemented) both have full time TA and seem to progressing really well.

I've always fought tooth & nail to get by dc the support/help/treatment they need.

I'm SENCO in my school and in the last year have referred four children to behavioural support. It has no extra costs to the school but means that each child has support for part of the day. However I do feel there are schools who don't ask for this support because they don't want to admit they have a problem.

mrz I really hope that this is not the case. How long would it take for referred children to the support - weeks or months? I wondered if this is why nothing has happened yet because it can take a while?

Children might get different resources in different schools because unless a child is statemented the school funds the resources. One school might be able to fund a 1:1 for a certain amount of time, one might not. Small village schools tend to be poor in terms of allocated resources.

Statements should take 6 moths to organise but tend to take longer.

I don't really think its up to other parents to demand what should happen to another child. You can complain about what happens to your child but shouldn't be demanding ed psycs/behavioural support etc- especially not to the mother. Mainly because chances are he's getting it already. Also some things like behavioural support cannot be accessed by children with certain diagnoses (they need to get help from different organisations) and to get into all of that would be a real breach of confidentiality.

Complain about your own children, ask how they will be kept safe but saying X needs A B and C to happen won't get you far.

I agree with yurt there. There is no way that another parent can know exactly what is happening about the needs of a problematic child. You could have been describing my situation a couple of years ago, but luckily for me I now have a statement for DS adn 1:1 help and he is like a different child. He is no longer aggressive or angry and his previous anger was a symptom of the traumatic separation of myself and my ex as well as PDDNOS.

Behind the scenes there could be many appointments with various professionals to try to get to the bottom of it but of course other parents will be completely oblivious to all of this. There is no possible way that you can decide that what he has is not ASD just from your own observations. It is actually far harder for the borderline cases because they are seemingly 'normal' and therefore are perceived as being 'naughty' children. This mum does not need criticism from others because I am sure that she does not like the fact that her child is aggressive. Of course she is going to deny that there is a problem. I was on tenterhooks constantly and tried to deal with it by being as open and honest with other parents as possible but my heart sank when a child would point to my son and say to their parents 'he's that really naughty boy at school'.

Children do not need a statement to receive support from the Behavioural Support Service (at no cost to the school) only one of the four I mentioned has a statement.
Cargirl I can only speak for my LA but I referred a child on the 20th March and she was assessed by the service last week with support beginning after the spring break.

Yurt is right you can only express your concern that your child may be at risk of harm from this child demands that certain action takes place wouldn't be appropriate.

there are a lot of other background facts that are known than what I have posted. I would like to see her helped but in the meantime I do think the other children should be safe in the classroom?

My frustration is that school have not introduced the changes in the classroom environment that they promised weeks ago, are they going to be introduced at all? If written pressure will force the school to provide what is needed out of their own budget then it is a suggestion I will make to the parents who complain about it.

If something doesn't change then I think several parents will remove their children as several local schools have spaces in year1.

I have not read the thread, but when dd was younger one of the pupils in her class was violent, and when he was going to get in a rage, the teacher would calmly say Tiger to the other pupils and they would go line up in the hall.

I have not read the thread, but when dd was younger one of the pupils in her class was violent, and when he was going to get in a rage, the teacher would calmly say Tiger to the other pupils and they would go line up in the hall.

Cargirl, if this child is not in your children's class. Then It Is NOTHING To Do With You. Stop being nosy.

mrz in our ocunty, behavioural support means a wait of a year.

It does vary a lot from County to County