How do you compare schools?

[squtable]

Hello,

I've been looking at the gov data for comparing schools & just wanted to know what was more important. The progress score or how many are achieving the expected & exceeding standard. Some schools have higher standard scores but lower progress scores.

We found talking to the Head really eye opening (from Head 1 who was genuinely shocked that I worked and didn’t have local grandparents who could come in WEEKLY, to Head 2 who did a 30 minute presentation on SEND but couldn’t answer how they stretched more able pupils, to Head 3 who admitted he wished they’d never built the new development because it meant he’d had to expand (deep sympathy there but we lived on said new development) etc).

Progress data is capturing how well children did between Ks1 exams and SATs at the end of KS2.

High progress just means children are learning more than average taking into consideration their starting points. The SAT scores focus on overall achievement.

I would want progress to be at least average and feel based on both scores my child could
achieve we’ll there. You know your child so see how children like yours (SEN, higher ability, disadvantaged) do at the school - the data are broken down into pupil characteristics.

I think progress comes before the grades themselves. My key thing is pastoral care and how happy and settled the children appear as well as environment (is it chaotic, noisy etc.) But when looking at ofsted or similar, I’d be looking for a school that continues to improve or make changes and hasn’t grown blasé or disillusioned with an ethos and values that I feel would suit my children. A progress score would be of higher value than the outcomes - which could have lots of factors outside of the school’s control.

I think it depends on both of the numbers really as to how acceptable a mediocre progress score is.

I’m not disagreeing that a high progress score with amazing attainment (and with an average attainment at intake) isn’t great, but we’re not really lucky enough to have any schools in the the area that manage that, especially at secondary level (we’re unfortunately not in a grammar area, so everyone ends up at the local comps which are almost invariably awful).

Obviously there’s tons more to learning and school life than stats anyway, it’s just one piece of the puzzle.

Also won’t help that there’s no published data since 2019 I believe, so hugely out of date!

@RachelSq
Yes. The data is out of date but you can get a picture before that and many schools are consistent. I know some do nosedive but it’s not all by any means.

I actually looked at some primary schools around me that I know are good (one Outstanding in 2009!). Progress was a mixed bag. Results were a mixed bag too. I looked at schools that parents really like and move into the areas to get into these schools!

What ultimately matters is whether the school is addressing any shortcomings and that everything else is great. One school that had 33% higher achievers was, only a few years ago, a total basket case and shunned by nearly everyone! Another really popular school had 3% in the same category. The latter a leafy lane pretty middle class school. The former mostly served a council estate. Probably all sold off now! Therefore getting behind the data would be useful!

If you are a grammar area be aware that the SATs & progress scores are heavily skewed by DC being tutored on top. In our area wealthier parents pay for SATs tutors too. Plus parents doing lots of extra homework with DC too.

@snowtrees I am in Bucks and looked at Bucks primaries. It’s a very mixed picture and not much evidence of tutoring for sats. It’s perhaps more likely that where leafy lane schools didn’t get high flying sats results, the brightest Dc were attending private schools!

When my Dc were young, most parents who wanted the grammars didn’t care a fig about sats. Grammars were the prize. Now Bucks publish pass numbers at each school, comparing this with sats is more fruitful and interesting. However plenty of bright Dc pass the 11 plus from the private primaries.

What @APurpleSquirrel wrote, as to things to focus on in your search. I think progress is the more interesting of the metrics you mention, but there can be quite a lot behind it to mask underlying cohort data.

@TizerorFizz because non selective high schools use SATs to do the initial sets for maths etc, parents want to ensure DC are in top sets. The view is that expectations are higher and behaviour better