I must get my DC into a village school!

[Hmmmmnotsure]

My first little one is off to school next September so we are looking around local schools currently. We are considered all kinds of schools but It seems that everyone I know is really keen to get their child into a smaller village school. I really do mean everyone! None of them are in catchment for a village school either.

I am just wondering why village schools seems to be largely favoured? We are quite keen on our local school, which is a three form entry school, it's really making me second guess this. Do children in village schools have better outcomes (including socially)? Would love to hear your experiences and advice.

Our son moved from a 1 1/2 form entry primary to a 5 form entry and it’s thriving. It is a bit anonymous but on every other measure it’s better.

Most of the people I know who favour a village school whilst not actually living in a village and having a school near them in their own community do so for one reason - Snobbery!

It's the age old thing that your child will mix with a better class of friend. Small village school seen as better than larger local estate schools. A lot of the village schools end up with better ofsted results too.

My dds went to a village school one class per year group - class size 16-22.

Pros- amazing small classes with no disruptive pupils, easy to manage kids whose parents appear to really engage
No smoking at the school gates or pjs on the school run,
Special needs provision great and small extra tutor groups for the younger in year kids

Cons - low diversity, no subsidised after school or breakfast club so £5 breakfast and £12 after school compared to the bigger school in a less affluent area of 50p breakfast and £5 after school

The parents I know who seek out smaller schools seem to think their child will feel more special there. I went to a small school and it was terrible. I was constantly learning on my own because I was ahead of my class. You got stuck with the same friends for 7 years and when things went wrong socially there were no other options to make new friends. My kids went to a primary with 900 kids and the principal still knew everyone’s name. Within a few weeks of us starting the office staff knew who my kids were. There were loads of extra curricular activities to choose from so they could always pursue their interests.

Meanwhile my friend who was so desperate to send her kids to a small school ended up pulling them out to go to the school she’d originally deemed too big and impersonal. And they were much happier there.

When I was working in education, lots of parents with SEN children got them into under used village schools. As they had space, so they took the Dc. It was considered a cosier nurturing environment. Plenty of the schools tried not to take the Dc!

Some of the worst behaved Dc were in the village schools. SEN Dc were often a high number percentage too as the schools failed to keep them out. As a result plenty of Dc didn’t do that well. Plenty were not rated highly by ofsted either. These schools can be seen as havens by parents but the catchment area parents don’t like it when poorly behaved Dc turn up.

There was nearly a riot at one ultra snobby village school which had an adopted Romanian child arrive. All 4 siblings had been to the school but this child had hepatitis. So you can imagine the issues. We had to have a parents meeting with a blood specialist from a London teaching hospital to give parents the facts. The LA paid for a medical room.

Parents might think a village school is aspirational. However they can be very cliquey and full of “people like us” who are unbearable! And discriminatory.,

I work in a 3 form entry school (so over 600 children), and our head knows every child's name and greets them at the gate every morning.

So out of date but it might be useful. He’s early 20’s now.
Academically bright son, really struggled with last three years at one form primary
Bored and disrupting.
For him it only worked for a very few years.
really does depend on the child.

Mine went to a bigger city academy and it was great. Lots of diversity, varied activities and a very well rounded education. My DD did brilliantly BUT we moved to a catchment area for a half decent secondary school and because I could see it wasn't as good a fit for my younger DS. He was getting into a bit of a rough friendship group and had been hit a few times which the school didn't really address. We moved to a big village which he loves and he's at the average sized village c of e primary. So far he's getting on fine and the rural location suits him. However the lack of diversity in the local population is a bit of a shock (to me). At our old school there was a big mix of families from all backgrounds with a higher % of parents who work manual /retail/ frontline NHS type jobs and/or have blended families. All the parents that I can see so far at our new school turn up in expensive gym kit or wfh type clothes. DS is the only one in his class to my knowledge whose parents are separated etc etc. But I guess I wanted to take him away from the rougher elements at his old city school and these are the consequences.

There are village schools and village school. Village infants are likely to be quite tiny and cosy but potentially lack facilities. Our village primary is massively popular and has wrap around care etc and has brilliant facilities. I think the other factor is demographics. I suspect a lot of village schools have demographics that would be close to matching preps in other areas and have high expectations of what is provided. Such schools will have an active pta and generous fundraising. It is also nice to have a community feel and be able to walk to play dates etc, meet families in the area etc.

I wouldn't choose a tiny school for my children. The resources just aren't there. The Headteacher and teachers have to do everything, will be crazily overworked (even more so than in any school). Teachers have to be subject leads of multiple subjects and they are likely to fall foul of the current Ofsted framework with a huge emphasis on curriculum.

I'm an Ofsted geek (due to my job) and I see so many very small primaries being downgraded from outstanding to RI and below. Life is so tough for staff in very small schools.

Ah yes "deomographics" is part of the real reason I suspect many are thinking they'd prefer a village school...
Yet if you read those who have been through them/teachers, even on this thread, you can see that it's not necessarily in the child's best interest (for all the reasons on this thread...)

You perhaps need to be grateful that they do this - because if they didn't there might not be enough children to keep the school open!

Our son is in our local village school - it was our nearest catchment school and everyone we knew locally had a lot of respect for the Headteacher, who has a very pupil-centric approach. It is a one-form entry school and has a very warm and supportive vibe. Head knows the names of all the kids, as do most of the teachers - even if they've not taught them personally. I think that would be hard to replicate in a massive 4-form primary.

That said - you can go too far the other way. We vetoed the village school in the next village along for being too small. Only had 65 kids in total and smaller staff team and fewer facilities made it harder to offer the opportunities a larger school could offer - eg after school clubs, trips etc.

You are wrong about larger schools. And when is the head knowing names a sign of first class teaching?! I’d rather fantastic teachers than a head knowing all children. What difference does that really make? No one thinks great progress by Dc is down to a head knowing their name. I would far rather the head got the best teachers, monitored quality of teaching, ensured the curriculum is outstanding, had robust progress data and understood school improvement as well as supporting staff and being a great leader. It’s all far more important than knowing all the names!

Depends on the child. We sent ours to a small village primary (half form entry) because our eldest absolutely needed the very nurturing small environment where everyone knew everyone else. It was absolutely perfect for both my children until they outgrew it during year 6 by which time we knew where they were going next (a huge 8-9 form entry secondary school where they have also thrived but some of that is due to the nurturing they received in primary school).
But there were downsides. The sport was woeful. The clubs were very limited. Friendship options were reduced (both my children were fortunate to be in classes where the majority were their gender but the children of the opposite gender did have some friendship issues just due to lack of numbers - and obviously they could and did be friends with boys and girls but it was still an issue at times).
All those negatives were far outweighed for my children by the positives but I can see that that wouldn't be the case for everyone.
I have friends whose children went to bigger schools and were also happy.
I think you have to see where you can imagine your own child thriving best.

This is the same experience for us. We live in the village, but non of my daughters friends do. They all drive in from the nearest town… which has it’s own school.

This seems to be more
of a trend now, as when my 13yr old son started primary all the kids were from the village.

I like a village school, my kids like it too… bit then again we don’t know any different!

The local high school is a 2 form entry
village school too, with no 6th form. 400 in total in the school. Kids do well there, is a top ranking state school. It’s a pain that there’s no 6th form, but the colleges are about 15 miles away by bus or trains

Why does everyone assume a larger school
cannot nurture children? Most people who write this have never been in one! It’s simply not true! My DDs were in a very nurturing environment with 3 form entry. Dc are taught in classes of no more then 30. They are in their nurturing bubble for a bit before they spread their wings. No mixed ages. Dc are very well known with their needs met. If schools couldn’t do this, no larger school would ever be successful. You could strongly argue that having more clubs and activities and different teachers nurture more. It can accommodate the needs of the whole child. I don’t see claustrophobic as nurturing. By ks2 it’s the opposite.

But then there are a lot of assumptions on this thread being made about small schools - it's rather like small school bingo:

There will be friendships problems
No facilities
To few pupils means it's not financially viable
No opportunities for sport
No specialist staff
Claustrophobic
Won't support KS2 childrens needs
Too middle-class
'Demographics' - whatever that means
No diversity
Etc etc etc

None of these are true about many small schools; some are true & the schools bend over backwards to mitigate it; other schools are just rubbish. The same with larger schools - you can have many of the above problems & different ones, but not all big schools are like that & a good school - whatever the size - will do it's best to mitigate any challenges it faces to make the best for the pupils.

Actually @Titsflyingsouth our small school offers lots of trips including whole school trips as they only need to hire 1 coach to take the whole school. In the summer term each class did 3 trips including a whole school trip. This term there will be at least two including one whole school trip to the theatre.

Small primaries can mean a major shock to the system moving up.

I think it was 6 of us that moved up together and it was hard going for us all.

There's loads of village schools round my way. The majority of kids attend from outside catchment because village houses hardly ever change hands, and most local families can't afford the house prices in the villages anyway. Ofsted reports are really variable - some come out as great and others not so great.

DC is only in Reception so too early to tell whether it was the right choice. But definitely smaller class sizes, a friendlier feel and very low staff turnover- lots of the staff have been there for years.

Downsides I've seen so far are limited wraparound/holiday care options due to rural location, and faith element (all our local village primaries are C of E and do have quite strong religious character)

My children go to a very small village school, around 60 pupils, so mixed classes. It's great, it's what I experienced as well, and it's lively how everyone knows each other.
However, there is no provision for breakfast clubs, after school clubs etc providing wrap around childcare. There aren't the numbers to warrant it, most mums are SAHMs.
The classes are split into Reception, Yr 1 and yr 2 together, Yrs 3&4 together, the yrs 5&6. Sometimes the older classes mix, depending on what they are doing.
There are no problems with mixed ages, and they often split off to year groups for work. When there are a max of 10 per year, it's not hard. I feel my children are happy mixing with different ages and they all play together at break times.

We live in the village, so friends wise, they aren't missing out - these are all local children and being so rural, it is the best place for them all to meet! If my children went to a bigger school, I would be having to drive them all over to meet friends from a much larger area.

@APurpleSquirrel
Its largely true that villages in this country don’t have many children who have come from all over the globe. As they have little social housing you certainly don’t see recent immigrants. You might get more travellers.

No one says there is no sport! Of course you get sport but in a 60 place school it’s not competive sport. Small schools might play “sport” against other tiny schools but they are unlikely to field teams. Or be able to nurture budding sports people. Ditto music. It’s very difficult to have any sort of orchestra or choir. It’s not an assumption. It’s pure numbers!

If tiny village schools are running on 20 in a class it’s no wonder they have no money, I’ve rarely seen anyone in a tiny school with specialisms. Doesn’t really matter for ks1, but ks2 is different. Who pays for them? One of the teachers might be great but it’s often parents who pay for extra tuition. The schools are just about financially viable but they have less leeway. I’ve worked for a LA and I do know what the issues are!

That’s also another issue. Fund raising. Tiny schools are often poor. They rely on stay at home mums for help.

Of course there are not always friendship issues but, if there are, where do Dc go for alternative friends?

There are positives for some DC. The CofE infant schools near me have expanded to take ks2 with mixed results. Some Dc still move on to the bigger schools if they can for the reasons I’ve outlined. If you are very much in the groove of the village, of course you enjoy it. However where I live it’s long been the case that village schools are kept open by town dwellers running from schools with ethnic minorities. You can dress it up as wanting a village ethos and friendly atmosphere but it’s really about class and being amongst “people like us”. CofE schools completely trade on that.

My DC are summer born. We looked at a tiny village school for DC1, but they had mixed year classes e.g. 15 in Yr 1, 15 in Yr 2 and therefore 30 in room with one teacher. It meant my DC would be the youngest of a double year group and then, 12 months later, potentially behind visibly younger children in the same cohort (we knew DC would struggle and now has a confirmed SEN). The larger school that he attended was crap with his SEN, but I have no doubt that he'd have struggled more in the tiny school.