Help! Year 5 English levels plummeting

[Year5Englishhelp]

I have realised for a while that DC2 in year 5 does not enjoy English as a subject and is a reluctant reader (thanks home school!) School have contacted me as they've just done assessments and from being at greater depth in KS1 he is now borderline working towards/meeting expected standards.

He finds comprehension really difficult, I've bought comprehension books, gone through the method & shown how to find the answers in the text but it doesn't seem to be getting easier for him to do independently. He finds it tedious. He never writes for pleasure and produces the bare minimum, so he will work at school but the vocabulary he uses is basic and repetitive.

I read longer chapter books with him which he's never inclined to continue reading unless I pick it up. He will read shorter, humerous or graphic novels. We buy The Week Junior and I encourage him to do the wordsearch and crossword with me. He doesn't articulate his ideas very clearly and doesn't incorporate new vocabulary unless it's slang. From early spring, when homeschooling again, he has a weekly session with an English tutor.

I'm at a loss really of what to do but feel like I'm letting him down. DC1's trajectory was the opposite, a slow burning start to school but is academic, enjoys learning and now is flying at secondary. DC2 started with promise and now his teacher seems quite surprised that academically he's not doing better, though acknowledged that because of the gaps in schooling missing nearly 2 terms of year 4 and a term of year 5 has contributed to his writing not developing to where it ordinarily would be. Unfortunately there don't seem to be any school based solutions, I asked if he would get the chance to do some small group based work and his teacher said they don't have the resources.

So any ideas or advice please? Or any anecdotes from your own experiences of DC that didn't enjoy English at primary and how they have done academically at secondary? Is this a blip in his path or a truer reflection of his academic level / abilities?

I suppose this is another of the rubbish implications of living through a pandemic! In the headlines the Government keep saying that they are going to help the children affected by the disruption to schooling but for DC2 it's clearly not manifesting.

I don't have any specific advice to offer, but just wanted to say that, from what you've written, you are certainly not letting him down! Reading to him and with him, encouraging him to engage with other reading material (The Week Junior), doing word searches/crosswords together, talking about new vocabulary, encouraging him to articulate his ideas verbally etc. - they all sound like just the sorts of things people would recommend. Add to that the addition of a tutor, and it really does sound as though you're doing everything you can.

I've thought of an anecdote which might be of interest: a friend's children (DS and DD) are older now - late secondary/university - but she described them both as being very 'literal' readers. They are both bright children who learned to speak/read/write quite easily, but when it came to writing imaginatively and creatively, and comprehension/inference, they both struggled a bit. They're both very strong on maths/science, and one is reading Physics at uni.

I agree with that- letitgo.
Im a but like that. I understand the words but have little imagination.

Is he one of the older in the year op?
As the youngest tend to improve but that means overtaking some of the older ones.
Also in years r/1 the focus is on a particular skill - learning to read and simple comprehension.
Those kids good or bad at that have no reason to be good at the harder comprehension and creative writing.
So 'bright' across the board will still do well but the rest may change around.
My eldest learnt very easily and luckily does seem to get the comprehension. (Honestly the stuff even in y3 they were doing was really hard as it's so vague).
She does do a lot of independent reading though. Ive tried to increase to around 1hr a day.

Dc2 just doesnt have the comprehension skills (still reception). Dh has really bad comprehension and it leads to a lot of arguments. As he either leaps to some completely random conclusion or misunderstands something obvious.
Even discussing an event on tv he had completely gone on a tangent.
For him it could well be lack of reading as he has never read for pleasure (despite going to uni etc). So maybe he has missed the gentle story hints etc. (Watching lots of TV instead).
But dc2 seems similar so maybe genetic?

Anyway im sure your ds can improve a bit with extra reading. Just keep going with the comprehension questions.
I dont think it's like he's got worse, the work just gets much harder. Honestly it's easily as hard as we were doing when i was in secondary.
Maybe a reward chart for books completed from the 5/6 suggested book list.
Y4 dd has probably read 20 or so of the 100 already.
Also even understanding vs writing yourself is very different a bit like translating into english vs translating into french.

Thanks for the responses. I think there may well be something in him being a more literal thinker than imaginative, he much prefers maths.

His birthday is in April, so I don't think it's just a drop in age related advantage. His teacher suggests that he's capable of more as he's otherwise quite bright and attentive.

He is happy which is the main thing. I don't think he fully understands more is expected of him now and he needs to put in more effort but I don't want to undermine his confidence either. It just feels like for some of his English skills the penny should be dropping now but it's got wedged in the slot!

@LetItGoToRuin thanks for saying I'm not letting him down. I suppose as he's spent so much time with me over the last year the responsibility for his progression stalling feels like its down to me. I'm putting my homeschool into special measures!

As a primary school governor in charge of English monitoring, I know that English (particularly writing) has suffered country-wide due to school closures. I'm also an English graduate whose DS2 (Y6) doesn't enjoy English, so I feel for you. He prefers graphic novels and is known at home as Mr Logic. However, he does love to be read to, so I try to sneak in some inference questions when I'm reading at bedtime, such as 'why does so and so say this?', or 'what do you think will happen next?' Try and highlight interesting vocabulary, and play description games, such as Story Cubes. DS2 does like browsing through his copy of the Storyteller's Dictionary.

On the plus side, I know someone who only ever read sports-related information for pleasure, and who is now a secondary school head of maths, so don't get too disheartened.

@BlueChampagne thanks I've just ordered the Storytellers Dictionary.I suspect as writing skills have decreased there will have been a corresponding increase in online gaming abilities!

I think in the holidays I need to make a concerted effort to do some writing with him, put on a timer for half an hour and see what we can produce each day. Previously it's been like getting blood out of a stone so then we are both fed up, but I will be positive and reward any effort on his part.

It's hard as I love reading. DC1 has followed in my footsteps and my only challenge there is keeping a steady supply of books. DC2 really just doesn't enjoy reading as a pastime and would rather lie on the sofa and stare into space than pick up a book. He has continued to read at bedtime though. I do ask questions to recap the last chapter we've read together, his normal response is 'I don't know' until I probe some more and he does remember he just doesn't recall it straight away. I also ask him if he knows the meaning of words that I think might be unfamiliar in the text, for example, yesterday I asked him what ceremony meant but he tends to get irritable at anything he sees as extending the reading as he really just wants to get it over with.

DC2 is far sportier than DC1 or I so challenges himself that way far more. I do recognise that strengths lie in other places for people but English is the foundation for all the other subjects at secondary so I know its important for him.

I may try a kindle as he loves gadgets so might be more interested in reading on that. Does anyone know if kindles have comprehension features for books?

Hi Year5Englishhelp sounds just like the difference between my DSs! Sometimes DS2 says he's too tired for comprehension questions at bedtime, so sometimes it has to be just one. And sometimes I get away with several. We have to drive to school, so he has a 'car book' and then gets read to at bed time, which means more testing texts. We've just finished Terry Pratchett's Mort and will be moving onto a Swallows and Amazons book. We've also read quite a lot of poetry, which he enjoys. My DS2 is quite happy to play Story Cubes and make up stories (where we can ask for more adventurous vocabulary in a playful way); putting pen to paper is, as you say, like getting blood out of a stone!

As a governor, what I've heard is that writing has declined partly because parents are less aware of the school/national curriculum expectations for writing, compared to reading and maths.

I too am a bit worried about all those secondary school essay subjects!

As a governor, what I've heard is that writing has declined partly because parents are less aware of the school/national curriculum expectations for writing, compared to reading and maths

Interesting. I would only be able to compare between my DC so I wouldn't know the general age related expectation for writing. We definitely did more of the work my DC were least resistant to! I wonder whether schools will introduce some interventions to try and get them back on track with writing, I do hope so.

I agree about doing what they were less resistant to. Writing was a 20min argument per 20min writing.

Re kindle dd1 has been using it for about a month and seems ok with it.
You can use your library card if they subscribe to online books. Ours has cloud library. It doesnt have many of the main books but we did find
Black Beauty
Indian in the cupboard
Series of unfortunate events

We also do the amazon samples of books before buying any so dc can read that and choose between them.
Not sure about comprehension.

I think you can click on a word and get the definition.
But dont think it works on library things.

We have the amazon fire so use it for things like mathletics etc too

Didn't realise you could get library books on a kindle, thanks @HSHorror

Don’t do half an hour in the holiday last it will become a row. I saw some brilliant suggestions on here like writing for just one minute about any subject and you write anything you like - but you must write intensively for a the whole minute. Then you can review at your leisure - more about content and fluency than accuracy at this stage. Build up to two minutes then three and so on and by the end of the holiday last you’ll be away. There are some great websites with story starters etc which I can’t remember right now but maybe someone will be along to share soon.

@Lockdowndramaqueen point taken, would rather have a productive minute and build up from there than half an hour of locked horns! We are going away so will get him to do a postcard to the grandparents, a diary entry and an itinery for a day (on separate days obviously ) Will play some word verbal games when we are travelling.

Would love some good ideas for websites with story starters. Also any websites or apps which encourage writing or comprehension online? When they were younger DC really enjoyed teachyourmonstertoread but I don't know what's good for KS2? There may be less opposition if it's on a screen!

Pobble is good.

Basically a picture to prompt ideas, a different one every day.

Thanks, had a look at pobble but I think it's subscription only?

@BlueChampagne the Storytellers Dictionary is brilliant thank you. DS has been dipping into it and been quizzing me - what word beginning with X means so & so - fun and educational, total win.

I have thought of another reason parents don't know what level their children are writing at. I was reflecting on when I'd last seen DC2's written work at school - the last time would have been at parents evening October 2019 when he'd just started year 4 - he's now about to finish year5. Other than his homework book we haven't had any school work out since then (obviously down to the pandemic). Parents evenings have been a phone call, so no chance to see their books then as we normally would and understandably we haven't been allowed in to school so haven't seen any of the displays etc in the classroom. Really I have no idea of the quality or development (or lack thereof) of DC2s schoolwork over the last 2 academic years .

How is his spelling?
I only ask because my reluctant but very capable reader has the same approach to writing.

Turns out his spelling ability was holding him back from writing more.

Ex-primary school teacher here.

It's great that you are willing to put in so much time & research into the support you can give your child. I have not RTF thread, but have you had a conversation with his school about this? If there is a concern about a child's progress, it is their job to address this.

It is in their interests, as well as your child's, and OFSTED would be on it eventually.

Happy to help - hope it's the start of better things. Keep it fun and read loads.

@beingsunny his spelling is good. Limited vocabulary but he learns and retains spellings well. Whereas DC1 has an extensive vocabulary but terrible spelling. It's amazing how different children from the same gene pool and with the same upbringing can be

@TrojaninTroy his teacher is lovely and she is concerned for him. I think she had her hands full with other children who had more obvious difficulties with returning to school after prolonged home learning. As DC2 always gets on with his work the fact he wasn't progressing has gone under the radar. His teacher said she would encourage him to re-read and develop his work but didn't really have any other interventions to offer. She said a lot of children have gaps due to homeschooling. He's going into Year 6 so I know he will be expected to work hard next academic year.

Sorry I am the original poster with a name change!

Thanks, had a look at pobble but I think it's subscription only?

Hmm, that's odd. I don't think I've logged in, but if I go to www.pobble365.com/colours-of-the-ocean/ then I see a picture and some resources below it. I can use the arrows on either side of the picture to scroll through some other alternatives. There will be a new picture each day.

@cantkeepawayforever thanks I'd googled and found the wrong one my.pobble.com/

Flash cards are good for dc who want a faster approach? 11+ vocabulary extending cards quick fire what does derelict mean etc.
So that could help with that and also synonym and atoynm flash cards.

Maybe just a few to get him to earn something he wants? Computer time, money? Whatever motivates him... Use learning these words as currency then get him to make a sentence with them at the end of the week.

If you can afford a tutor to Work on specific areas however I would do that.

Even for a short while a good one will really help.

not sure if it'll help but my friend recommended me a psychometric game designed to discover kids learning styles, and it helped us notice that group sessions (only possible on Zoom now) were better for my son due to him being more social type of learner. And he really enjoyed the game.
Can PM me for more details