Masks banned for children at dc's primary school - teachers, can the head do this?

[PCatwalk]

She says no masks for children at all without a medical reason and a doctor's note

She says the Dfe are v clear about masks in primary - but I think it's an arbitrary rule based on age, not physiology . My Y6 dd is as tall as me and so are a couple of her friends!

[coconutmonkey]

Good. It's nice to know there are some heads out there with gumption and principles.

[PCatwalk]

Should cases worsen in my area, Independent SAGE would disagree - we're currently at 32 cases in 100,000,doubled from the week before.

[Meredusoleil]

Our head has also said no masks or face coverings for the children or the staff. If a child arrives wearing one eg after using public transport, we are to ask them to remove it. If they or the parent refuse, they are to be sent home!

Thankfully, they are still optional at dd1's secondary and dd2's primary haven't said anything. So I'm assuming it won't be necessary hopefully!

[Bollss]

There are many countries where this is the norm and no one bats an eyelid

Mmm. Probably other countries where you wouldn't like most of the other rules though so probably not a brilliant comparison.

Good for the head teacher. And ten out of ten for starting a deliberately inflammatory thread op, like you didn't think anyone would realise what you were up to. Them for us. Haha.

Sorry it didn't go your way.

[Bollss]

And lol at "independent" sage. A) they aren't as "independent" as they might like you to think and b) they're not in charge and have 0 influence on policy

[ineedaholidaynow]

Schools here have said it is up to pupils and teachers if they want to wear a mask. At DS’s school they have said lessons will be given to Primary School children if they want to wear them to ensure they are wearing them properly.

[prh47bridge]

And lol at "independent" sage

Indeed. Not long ago they were predicting a number of deaths by next April which implied 2.3%-4.3% of those infected would die whereas the death rate is actually 0.5%-1%.

This is the group that claimed, "recent UK and international data suggests that children are in fact as likely as adults to become infected and carry the virus". They have never clarified what data they are referring to and other experts do not agree with their claim. The current scientific consensus is that there is no reliable evidence to back up their claim.

[PCatwalk]

@TrustTheGeneGenie

There are many countries where this is the norm and no one bats an eyelid

Mmm. Probably other countries where you wouldn't like most of the other rules though so probably not a brilliant comparison.

Good for the head teacher. And ten out of ten for starting a deliberately inflammatory thread op, like you didn't think anyone would realise what you were up to. Them for us. Haha.

Sorry it didn't go your way.

Hahahaha! That's funny. It went exactly the way I wanted, thanks. I needs to know if she could do this, and got the exact answer I needed as always from prh47 and I also asked for teachers' opinions, which I got from highly respected posters such as CallmeAngelina and mrz.

[SionnachRua]

The primary I work at (not in Uk, government hasn't mandated masks for children) has said no masks are required but if the kids want to wear them, they can. They've to wear fresh masks, have changes of mask etc.

Some of the older kids are doing it - no messing around with masks from them at all - and other children very respectful of it too. It's no skin off any of our noses and makes those children feel more comfortable.

[Keepdistance]

No prh47
Who says under 5 no mask.
Risk of death low.
Harm -unknown. But includes heart damage even in asymptomatic
Risk high - lots of colds and coughs and temps and testing
Certainty- gov will run out of tests as this is already happening. 2w off work and school, lots of stress.

Who -
kids with medical conditions Cf /cancer etc should be wearing medical masks.
Teachers should be wearing masks
If vulnerable teachers then medical...

Other Eurooean countries are putting masks on primary kids. You lot need to keep up

[TheSunIsStillShining]

@Lcats

Ballsy headteacher.

Children in all probability do transmit COVID.

But cloth masks likely don’t stop them from doing so, as was pointed by several people on this thread. This is basically a new superstition that people are using to calm down their nerves. Wearing a cloth mask for prolonged period in a closed classroom is useless (because it gets wet and because the kids would touch and touch and touch it and then touch their maskless friends). Government made it mandatory for secondary to calm people down after doing nothing (like introducing small bubbles or effective masks for teachers or outside learning or adjusting school buildings) to actually diminish the possible spread.

This doesn’t mean that you should give in to hysteria and put a useless and extremely uncomfortable piece of cloth over your primary schooler mouth. If you are actually worried (and have a medical reason) just don’t send them to school.

I agree with your last sentence. BUUUUUTTTT!!!

1. I am being "invited" in for a chat with HT as this means persistent absence and -by law?- needs to be reported to safeguarding authorities. Atm all I know is that "they cannot except that a child will not be going in, so I should start looking into alternatives". Whatever the f.. this means.

1. On the other hand, they are being helpful on the academic side, promised to send over curricula so we can get on and mark hw same as others.

If schools would have alternative plans for vulnerable children/families, then I'd totally agree. But it's not the case. It's either go in (risk getting sick and the potential to have a life limiting long version) or homeschool. These should not be the only alternatives!

[TheSunIsStillShining]

And could I just ask why is it such a terrible idea to expect kids to wear masks? They learnt how to wear trousers, underwear,.... they could easily get used to masks too!
This overreaction from parent who think children are idiots is astonishing. If it is communicated properly KS2 kids WILL understand and abide. At least if that is what they hear from their parent.
Of course if their parents moan and be overdramatic about a fucking mask, then yes: the kids will be too.

[Keepdistance]

If she has amedical condition and you would agree to send her with a medical mask? Tell the school and send them the who recommendations

[prh47bridge]

@Keepdistance - The WHO recommends that children aged 12 and over should wear masks under the same conditions as adults. For children aged 6-11 they only recommend masks in specific circumstances. In general, they do not recommend masks for this age group, instead recommending a risk-based approach. Many experts believe that getting children of this age to wear masks will increase the spread of the virus, not reduce it. Of course, it could be that both the WHO and medical experts are wrong and children of this age should be wearing masks but that is absolutely not what they say at the moment.

[Bollss]

Highly respected posters haha

[CallmeAngelina]

Thank you very much, PCatwalk.

[Keepdistance]

WHO and UNICEF advise that the decision to use masks for children aged 6-11 should be based on the following factors:

Whether there is widespread transmission in the area where the child resides
The ability of the child to safely and appropriately use a mask
Access to masks, as well as laundering and replacement of masks in certain settings (such as schools and childcare services)
Adequate adult supervision and instructions to the child on how to put on, take off and safely wear masks
Potential impact of wearing a mask on learning and psychosocial development, in consultation with teachers, parents/caregivers and/or medical providers
Specific settings and interactions the child has with other people who are at high risk of developing serious illness, such as the elderly and those with other underlying health conditions


Then yes they should as the teachers can be 60+ or ex shielding

[Bollss]

You appear to have based that decision on just the one factor and ignored the rest though?

[Keepdistance]

Lol i think ifthey can wipe their bum they can put a mask on.
Tbh it's concerning how our expectations of children are so much lower than other countries.
My 5.0yo was doing it.
Taking on/off for food/drink might be harder.

[Bollss]

ok i dont agree, but what about these?

Access to masks, as well as laundering and replacement of masks in certain settings (such as schools and childcare services)
Adequate adult supervision and instructions to the child on how to put on, take off and safely wear masks
Potential impact of wearing a mask on learning and psychosocial development, in consultation with teachers, parents/caregivers and/or medical providers

Because schools dont have a supply of clean masks. Some parents wont be able to afford an endless stream of clean masks. Teachers wont have time to watch every single child to ensure they're wearing a mask correctly. And the impact on their learning? Masks are a massive distraction to adults let alone children.

All this oh children in other countries do it. Yeah, they do. Does it make it right? No. It doesnt.

Children used to sweep chimneys and work down mines - do we reccomend that just because well children used to do it and not complain?

No. We dont.

I dont think China should be used an example when it comes to anything tbh.

[prh47bridge]

Lol i think ifthey can wipe their bum they can put a mask on

The concern expressed by experts is that young children will touch the mask a lot. This would result in the mask increasing rather than reducing transmission.

You are wrong about other European countries. Some are getting primary school children to wear masks, many are not. France, Holland, Norway, Poland, Sweden and Russia are just some of the countries that don't require children of this age to wear face masks. Many of the countries that do require masks for young children say they should be removed for lessons, whereas you apparently believe they should be mandated at all times apart from eating/drinking.

It is absolutely not the case that all primary schools have teachers aged 60+ or ex-shielding.

Whether or not primary school children should wear masks is a decision for individual schools. A head teacher can ban masks if they believe it is the right thing to do for their school.

[Wheytaminute]

Good on the Head teacher

Let the children enjoying getting back to school.

I am sure the school has thought this out.

[Norestformrz]

"Potential impact of wearing a mask on learning and psychosocial development, in consultation with teachers, parents/caregivers and/or medical providers"
Weigh that with the potential impact on health of not wearing a mask. Just been forwarded this by my daughter in law ... and three primary schools near me have cases confirmed .

[Kaktus]

@Keepdistance

WHO and UNICEF advise that the decision to use masks for children aged 6-11 should be based on the following factors:

Whether there is widespread transmission in the area where the child resides
The ability of the child to safely and appropriately use a mask
Access to masks, as well as laundering and replacement of masks in certain settings (such as schools and childcare services)
Adequate adult supervision and instructions to the child on how to put on, take off and safely wear masks
Potential impact of wearing a mask on learning and psychosocial development, in consultation with teachers, parents/caregivers and/or medical providers
Specific settings and interactions the child has with other people who are at high risk of developing serious illness, such as the elderly and those with other underlying health conditions

Then yes they should as the teachers can be 60+ or ex shielding

What about in schools where none of the teachers are 60+, shielding or vulnerable, like ours?

[TheSunIsStillShining]

@Kaktus

The kids go home. And there can be vulnerable parents.