Forest school - Why? AIBU - probably?

[perplexedagain]

OK looking for some people to explain to me very simply and without any jargon why forest school is so important, what children are supposed to get from this experience, the benefits etc.

DS did forest school in reception last year and it was OK - he came home and talked about looking at the trees and finding and learning about bugs. This year he's doing it again. The entire class has been out for the equivalent of a school day already and more to come.

I'm not getting the benefits. DS says everyone just runs around / climbs trees /or builds something with twigs (which is pretty much what they do every lunch hour).

Meanwhile I am expected to do homework every night - spellings / reading and support with handwriting. I feel like the time at school would be better spent on helping DS with these skills - DS still doesn't know how to form letters correctly rather than the extended playtime that is forest school. I don't even know if it's a compulsory part of the curriculum?

If your son is struggling with letter formation - then rather than doing "handwriting practice" it could be far more valuable to work on bigger motor skills. So do letter formation in a sand pit with a big stick. Painting shapes and letter. Even painting with water on a dry surface. Forming letters in a tray of shaving foam.

With my DC when they tended to mirror letters, they used to stand by a wall, and I would write a letter on their back with my finger and then they would copy it with chalk onto the wall.
And then you can do things like Hamma beads and sorting tiny things to practice finer skills.

With Forest school - what may seem to you like "rampaging in the woods" can actually have a lot of well thought out meaning to it. Maybe even practising a lot of those motor skills your son needs. And it is far more valuable than just riding your bike for an hour (although that is good use of motor skills and hand eye co-ordination too).

Countries were children do much better educationally do far more "Forest school" type activities until at leat 7 or older than here.

True forest school is really great, I do think that it has become fashionable and some settings run something called forest school that can be alot more free play in woods type thing. This is probably still a good thing but I can see how it could be annoying you get lots of formal homework.

thanks for the advice re letter formation. That's the type of stuff we are doing at home on the advice of the teacher.

My son (now almost leaving school) goes to an unconventional somewhat forest school type education and ethos.
He has grown up so differently to kids at all the other schools in the area. The children at his school are, on average much more mature and developed in themselves as people. Its something thus type of education fosters.
"Running around in the woods" teaches you first and foremost about being a person and geing a person in a group. It teaches you more about decision making, negotiating with others (maybe whi gets the big stick at a young age), aspects of danger in a relatively safe setting, how yo ge yourself and Express yourself. It shows you how society orders itself and works, hence kids believe they are running free whilst this all happens on a very subtle level children sort out minor doats themselves.
Of course they also appreciate and learn about the world about them and understand nature and how things work but to me this isnt so much the benefit of a true forest school where freedom is the vital element knowing where you come from, who you aren how you fit into the world and what it is let's you grow faster. The faster you grow you suddenly learn much much faster as happens in countries like Finland and Germany.
I think anyone that has this is very lucky.

This question is a bit like saying I don’t understand why children are allowed to play in school.

So few kids today are let loose outside to play and run and be free.
Forest school is a bit of time for them to be kids without influences of electronics etc, much like kids did years ago before parents were more worried about them playing out.

It’s sad that things have changed to the point this now has to be timetabled but so vital for the kids who don’t get this time at home.

Thanks everyone. I see I am in a minority but I think I will ask to speak to the teacher in charge to gain a better understanding.

If your son is struggling with letter formation - then rather than doing "handwriting practice"

My DS has motor difficulties and poor letter formation. School spent 3 years "strengthening" his hands and arms and doing threading and he still couldn't write anything you could read.

Two terms of an actual letter formation programme and he's doing much better. PenPals is one (though we use a different one), each letter has a different mnemonic.

Some kids don't play out much. Forest School must do them good.
Most of my dc's childhoods was spent running around in trees at the park and building dens.

The macro & micro benefits are many and varied: from being aware of the intrinsic importance of nature to healthy exposure to soil mictobiomes (it's a scientifically recognised thing), and everything in between.

The fact you had to ask is frankly worrying, and proves that your kid very probably needs this in his life.

You might like this article on kindergarten in Finland.. Outdoor play is prioritised and they do ok.

Young kids can only take in so much per day and IMO they need a lot of playtime because play is important for development. I home educated my kids until recently and at primary age we managed to keep pretty well on top of reading, writing and maths in under an hour a day. Obviously a whole class operates on a different schedule! The point is though that a lot of time in school is spent doing things other than intensive written work, and some of that other stuff is very valuable. For kids in school, downtime and outdoor play gives them fun and positive associations with school, and honestly it is probably a better use of their time than handwriting practice - isn't that supposed to be little and often?

I think it might seem a bit of an overload if it’s one day a week. I can see the benefits but it does come at the expense of something else if it’s 20% of the time and you cannot see how it fits in with the curriculum.

Good schools explain the curriculum to parents so everyone understands what is being taught and how it’s taught. What is he supposed to be learning and how are they doing it? Just running around for a day isn’t really learning. All the activities mentioned above are learning. Yes, these activities will help with his writing but you should ask what the school is doing to help with his formation of letters. When you see the teacher, ask to see his progress record and how she has assessed his work this term. Is he on target or not to meet the learning objectives. You should ask for an outline of the curriculum and of course support the school by doing homework with him.

It's deliberately unstructured. Time spent outdoors in nature improves concentration, self esteem and resilience. Children feel confident they can keep themselves safe in a natural environment. They develop social skills, gross and fine motor skills. It is particularly of benefit to children especially younger boys who might not yet be suited to a formal class room setting. It provides exercise in a unstructured environment which is essential. They're in a natural environment and less crowded and busy than the playground.

it is the amount of school time that is given over to less structured activities - at least 1 day a week and my son doesn't have the basic skills I would expect him to have at this stage

I had times when I felt like this.

I did see another poster put it very succinctly though I can't remember the exact words but something about things having flip from their expectations instead of them doing forest walks and watching DVD school did that and they were doing read, writing and maths at home.

I don't thing forest school itself is a bad idea - but my summer born children have needed a huge amount of support at home.

Write from the start is worth a look.

if they are older - Speed up.

A writing slope might also help and different pencil grips are worth a try

Plus check they've actually been taught how to form the letters - several of mine were forming letters completely wrong - starting in wrong place- and it wasn't picked up we were doing apple and pears for spelling and watching them it became very clear -and standing and I had to resort to correcting each time to break the habit.

Having fun.

heymissy - thanks - your post chimes with me a lot. DS does not know how to correctly form some of the letters and they look fine but I know he is storing up problems for the future so I am the one at home trying to resolve this.

So much of the class time is given over to forest school, building resilience work, watching dvds, assemblies, free play, special fundraising weeks etc there is actually v little time left for basic skills.

'The too long didn't read' version is this; it helps children become more rounded and able to understand the world around them. It's a process that needs continued attendance for benefits to be observed. Below I've provided more details, including why I'm sort of qualified to talk about it.

Hi, I'll put some context first before I go into OPs query. I'm an ex forest school leader, who will be requalifying next year. I also worked as an outdoor instructor for 5 years at a centre that focused on NEET children from ages 4/5 right up through teens. I'm by no means an expert, but a highly enthusiastic practitioner. I'm currently at university as a mature student to create a better career for myself with all of the above.

Simply put, forest school is less about the activities and more about the child's input and own direction. Tree climbing, fire lighting, den building - whatever is just a process to allow a child come to their own conclusions about where they stand in the big wide world. Without getting too technical, the focus is on emotional intelligence; how a child perceives themselves, understanding their own emotions and the emotions of others, and hopefully building empathy and understanding to those around them as well as the natural world.

When I went through my training, the instructor told the group that the biggest challenge would be getting the parents/guardians/teachers to see the benefits and not just it being a 'jolly in the woods'. The national curriculum is a huge part of forest school - as has been described in this thread so far. But it's built to go beyond that, by using experiential learning (exactly as it sounds, using experiences to learn and reflecting on what's happened, why it's happened, what the outcome is etc) to help improve cognitive development.

My last point I'll give is that it gives a huge boost to understanding risk. Whether that's for the naturally anxious kids who like to take it slow before committing (puddle jumping - how deep is it? It might be cold? what happens if I get muddy) to the naturally adventurous kids (jumping into climbing trees straight away, maybe pushing themselves too far and falling - the outcome being they learn their limits). All of this has societal and community benefits; the kids in that group will see the consequences of those actions and take it on board to moderate their own behaviours in the future.

I don't doubt that forest school is great for certain things, but as PPs have said there is a balance to be struck in terms of the amount of time to spent on forest school vs academic stuff.

It's potentially concerning if parents are expected to "make up" for lost academics with extra academic work at home. Because it's the last thing anyone wants to be do doing late at night after a hard day at work when kids and parents are tired. And because it makes it hard for children to rise beyond parental background and education levels. What about the child of a Somali immigrant who can't speak much English--should they be left to languish because Mum can't really help them at home?

I've always said that being an adult is about "accepting trade offs in life". Forest school is great for kids' eyesight, activity levels, physical health, micro biomes, sense of adventure and so on. It probably does very very little for their reading and maths. And the fact that it does very little for their reading and maths does not mean it's not worth doing, because "boosting maths test and reading scores" is not the only reason for doing something! But it means that there needs to be a balance about how much time is spent on it.

I can see stuff like forest school possibly being "overdone" in terms of curriculum time if a school is very hard core. Sweden went down this route some time ago (i.e. moving more and more towards "fun school" where kids have a lovely time but don't learn very much in academic terms) and their outcomes have tumbled as these cohorts have grown up. There is no doubt that Swedish kids are happy and healthy and love school though! Like I say, this is about trade-offs. A balance of "the right amount of forest school" is surely the most appropriate solution.

I think some people like to see the world in terms of Good Things versus Bad Things, so if forest school is good for kids' immune systems and sense of independence then it "must be" good for maths and spelling as well. Doubt that very much.

Not all kids are your kid OP so it’s vital that nature is part of the curriculum.
Teaching about seasons, plants, insects, ecosystems, etc etc is boring if you’re in the classroom, why not go outside and touch it and learn about it that way.
Reception age is so young OP - stop worrying.

Dd went to a forest school for nursery. Every day was outside the entire session unless the weather was dangerous. We had to be prepared with clothes for all sorts of weather. Sometimes school was outside the physical school building where they had built a park like setting with play space, a nook to read under a willow, an outdoor kitchen for mud pies and a garden that the kids tended by removing caterpillars by hand. Other days they met in natural areas around the area. The teachers would take the 3 year olds mucking into the creek looking for tadpoles or what not. Then they would get out their journals and draw what they saw and try to write a few words too. The director was a biologist by training.

Oh ... After such a beautifully detailed description, Purpleartichoke, you stopped just at the point where I was expecting to read your opinion of this activity and what conclusions you drew from it all.

I don’t agree with you about learning through play, because I think this is the best learning experience of all. But I don’t understand homework at that age. Studies have shown it does not enhance learning in any way.

Final one to clear up a couple of misconceptions about forest school; it isn't separate to the curriculum - or it shouldn't be. Done right it incorporates it into sessions. So maths, english, science etc are offered in a new perspective. That said not every aspect can be offered. But the point of forest school is to allow children to play to their strengths. You can't judge a fish against a monkey and their ability to climb a tree. And while FS might not directly benefit a kids ability to add up, or spell- I guarantee you it helps their focus in a classroom setting after having spent some free time outside. Which will help their ability to learn INSIDE a classroom. You can doubt all you like, but the evidence is there - look it up.

No one and no forest school instructor is saying that children need to have all their focus or whatever just on forest school; just that it benefits traditional education (though we should all be concerned about the state of it, that's another debate).

And it's not about 'fun school' - but your mind seems made up. You've got some real deep misconceptions that I don't think I'm going to be able to shift. So good luck, I hope I've at least provided some insight from a new perspective.

@perplexedagain ok at 5 years of age children learn far better through play than anything else.

Also due to the fact he is only 5 maybe he’s just not developmentally ready to form the letters properly yet. Just keep practicing a little at home and enjoy the fact your 5 year old is getting the forest school experience at school.

It's potentially concerning if parents are expected to "make up" for lost academics with extra academic work at home. Because it's the last thing anyone wants to be do doing late at night after a hard day at work when kids and parents are tired. And because it makes it hard for children to rise beyond parental background and education levels

I think that's why I got frustrated - with children who were already exhausted by school and having to get them to do work at home so they had the basics and didn't fall further behind. Plus once it's more than one child - it gets even harder and takes up so much time.

It is also worrying about the children you don't get the support as well.

But I don’t understand homework at that age. Studies have shown it does not enhance learning in any way.
I think the homework research isn't as clear cut as it first appears.

I think some is useful - reading maths practise - other like spelling lists and busy parental work like craft projects can be time consuming and pointless by some of the reseach lumps it all together.

I've also seen people defend craft projects as "fun" - they weren't to us and we were always aware the suposed purpose of the activity could easily be lost under the glue.

I did eye roll when school nursury gave us homework - "fun" activties to do with our child we both hated them - pretty sure teachers weren't keen on time spent providing the homework either.

Even learning though play which does sound great - I'm not sure was. I had children with hearing issues - oversensitve hearing, glue ear producing intermittent hearing lost, easily distracted and poor memory - and I think the noisy busy class delays setting up fun actives to learn the introduced concepts didn't help them.

Certainly they seemed happier higher up school with more structure and formal learning.

And it's not about 'fun school' - but your mind seems made up. You've got some real deep misconceptions that I don't think I'm going to be able to shift.

I do think that's a little unfair - IME when you child isn't struggling with basics and you're not so worried about their education it's easier to see the benefits to such activities.