Atheists Sending child to Catholic school

[othership]

We are looking at schools for DS who is due to start in Sep 2019. We have just moved to a new city so we weren’t sure what schools were like here, but 95% of them are catholic Schools. We want DS to have the best education but the nearest outstanding ofsted rated is 2 miles away for a catholic school but for a non religious school it’s 5 miles (where we live that’s about a 20 minute drive). The five nearest schools to us are all catholic school. Would you send your child to a religious school even if you weren’t practising? The city is very catholic and we were aware of that already but had no idea the amount of catholic schools.

It's not about the right to access a catholic school, I've got many family members who attend them and they are really, really religious.

I'm an atheist too, my niece came home singing "who put the fish in the sea" about god, I had to have a little talk about Charles Darwin with her.

Our 2 nearest secondary schools are CofE and Catholic - I was very surprised to learn that there is far more focus on religion at the CofE school and I've heard grumblings from the local Catholic Church that they aren't happy with the catholic school as the faith element is too diluted nowadays . We are atheist but choose the CofE school for ds as it's amazing, nearest & the best fit for dc but I'd rather we had the choice of a non faith school (ds quite likes daily worship now as he can have a quick snooze )

Agree with PP that you should look at any nearer schools not rated outstanding (good is still, well, good!)

I think if you choose a religious education for your child you shouldn’t withdraw them from the religious aspects. Learning to be respectful of other people’s beliefs is a good life lesson.

I’m not religious and went to non-religious schools. We still sang Christian hymns at primary school and had a school prayer at secondary school in assembly every week.

I sent DC to catholic schoolfrim choice. But wouldn't if I had my time again.
They spend a lot of time on catholic religious studies, mass etc
Also dc feels left out of things like communion as we're not catholic

"You'll just be assigned your catchment school"

Not necessarily. You will be assigned the nearest school with a vacancy after all,applicants have been dealt with. So it might not be your catchment school if you did not apply for it, but enough people did to fill it.

(I'm also idly wondering where has such a concentration of a Catholic schools, let alone outstanding ones)

95% is a bit of an exaggeration, unless you are talking about 95% of the outstanding schools are RC. There might be a lot of RC schools but it won’t be nearly all of them.

There likely isn’t too much difference between a good and an outstanding school and many people might prefer their local good school over the local outstanding one. Don’t limit your list just to outstanding.

Find a longer list - outstanding, good perhaps some RI or even SM ones that are making improvements quickly and then go and look at them. Once you’ve done that work out which ones you stand a reasonable chance of getting into.

DS went to Catholic school, we are Catholic but it was also the only outstanding school in the area. There were plenty of non catholic children in his class. Realistically at some point he is likely to come home and tell you about God, or singing something religious, even if you take him out of the religious aspects as it creeps into all lessons, especially in Lent and Advent. If you are Atheist but happy to teach DS some people believe... it'll be ok, If you are going to be offended by DS learning about religion and any mention of God then it won't be.

I work in a CofE school and DD is in a supposedly non-religious school, there is just as much religion in both of our schools to be honest, probably more in DD's. My school the vicar visits twice a week and runs some clubs and there are occasional services, DD's has the Salvation Army in all the time plus visits from various religions and beliefs (which is fascinating, they've been careful to include as many religions as possible so she now knows far more than I do)

Our nearest schools are all catholic I think one is CofE and the one that isn’t has a 3 ofsted rating from last year. We have moved to Liverpool and have found that most of the schools in our area are religious schools. Our nearest outstanding is not oversubscribed this year so hoping it will be the same next year. Going to phone on Monday and ask if a walk round is available for us as it sounds like the best school in the area. 2 high schools less than a mile away are non religious and outstanding ofsted rated and SD is at one and enjoying it so we thought primaries would be the same!

As a heads up you might not be able to visit as they'll hold open days in autumn for sept 2019 children. Some schools don't offer visits before that unless it is an in year admission

Have you read the report of the RI school or are you just going on the basis of the grading?

I teach in a Catholic school. I would say that it really depends on how staunchly athiest you are. You should be aware that there are prayers several times a day, religious assemblies, masses and obviously a strong general religious ethos, before you even get to the 2 or more hours of RE a week. RE is taught as fact and when they get older the way sex ed is taught is also heavily influenced by religion. As a pp said, you have the right to withdraw your child from religious observance but the school will take a dim view of this as it's really impractical to implement because religion permeates everything the school does. That being said, even though I am not catholic, if a Catholic school was the best school for my DC I would send them to one and have lots of discussions at home about what we/DC believe.

Forgot to say earlier - if you’re going to look around schools, try to make sure that you’ve been to at least one and preferably two of your other possibles...

If you haven’t been in a school since you left, they can be very different now, let alone you are now a parent rather than pupil which is different again

Going around others beforehand gives you a chance to get back into the schools mindset, figure out lots of questions you want to ask, have something to compare it to so that you don’t get to the end of the process and realise there are lots of things you didn’t find out but that you’re able to confirm your choice as you go around...

I have worked in CoE and Catholic schools and I wouldn't send my children to a Catholic school. Catholic school life is based around Catholicism and things like communions and confirmations are massive, you're child naturally wouldn't be part of that.
Get a feel for the schools, don't rely too much on Ofsted results and if you are going by Ofsted be sure to check how recent the last inspection was and if the management have changed since

Don't rely on Ofsted reports, they don't mean much!

Also don't assume you will be able to get a place at a local Catholic school. They usually admit based on religion, and will only admit non-catholic children if there is not enough Catholic children to fill the spaces. I have a Catholic school a stone's throw from my house, yet could not access a place for my dc their (and wasn't even in the top 10 on the waiting list!)

I can't comment on what it is like to attend a Catholic school as a non-catholic, but have heard from others that they tend to me very religion heavy.

I would view all the local schools where you have a reasonable prospect of getting a place, then make a decision based on what suits your dc best.

I wouldn't, though I do agree that there's no better way of ensuring your child turns out to be non-religious or an atheist than by sending them to a Catholic school.

But, no, I wouldn't. Not if there was an outstanding secular school just 3 miles further away.

And, in any instance, where I live, Catholic schools take Catholic children first, children baptised into other denominations second, children from single parent or "broken" families third, and children who don't fit into the former categories last, so you'd have no real chance here.

Our local Catholic school haven't accepted children which are not baptised for years, as it's very popular they don't need to.

The main thing to do is work out which is your catchment school and put this on your list. Choosing schools in a city that are miles from home may leave you with no school at all because none will be your catchment school.

You need to look at the admission criteria for the schools too. If they select catholic children, you have less chance of getting a place. Look on the Local Authority web site to see which is your catchment school. They usually have a way you can put your address into a search. Then visit that school plus others that are Good nearer to where you live and hopefully that DC can walk to.

I agree with the point above regarding how staunchly atheist you are. Only you can know if you would be happy for your children to be learning prayers and bringing home RE homework as well as the obligatory mass attendance. We are not practising and send our kids to a Catholic school but we are fine with this as it's a very good school. I'm
guessing you're in Liverpool?

things you may find tricky are the catholic stance on contraception, abortion and homosexuality which is quite different than the majority view in the uk. Now obviously lots of catholics form their own opinions on these issues and even lobby within the church against the stance but that is the official line and that might not be an issue in primary, but you may find it quite tricky during the teen years.

I would also second the view that a school doesn't have to be outstanding. A recently inspected good could be far better than an outstanding inspected 7 years ago. Their is a school in my LA area that hasn't been inspected for 11 years.

but that said I don't believe in selection by faith and think that its fine to go to a religious school if you are not of that faith, just don't be surprised if there are groups raising money for vigils outside abortion clinics for instance.

Firstly I would look at the admissions criteria as priority is usually given to those who are baptised and practicing Catholics. Secondly I would strongly consider other non church schools in the area that are good. Why send your DC to a school that will teach him about things you do not believe in. He is also likely to feel left out and a bit confused by not being involved in the religious side of things. Kids hate being left out or feeling different.

I’d home-school my kids before is send them to a Catholic school. That said, I’m in Ireland so it’s a bit different here. But here, the opting-out thing doesn’t work. The religious element runs throughout the school day. And forget them getting any work done during communion/confirmation years. Plus the ethos of the school informs sex ed etc. that’d be a hard o from me.

I went to a RC school as a non catholic. My sons (eldest is catholic youngest not), attend catholic schools.

We only said a prayer during whole schools assemblies once a week and year assemblies once a week.

Had two hourly RE lessons per week.

Advent and lent would be a whole school mass for one hour

We had 2 nuns teaching (RE and Science). They were brilliant- intelligent, funny and down to earth individuals (remember once people were talking about someone had sex with someone else, and one sister turned around and said 'I heard that, I hope they were sensible and used contraception!'

We had a small chapel which our weekly year assemblies were held in

This was a statue of Jesus on the crucifix in our school hall.

We had sex education, were told the importance of using contraception etc.

That was the amount of 'catholicism' I saw and experienced in my RC high school.

I asked my dc about it now, and they have confirmed that minus the teaching nuns, it's still the same.

They don't do prayers everyday, mass is only at important events and during RE they regularly discuss others religions, and have been told to respect others beliefs and that just because they are Catholic (obviously my youngest isn't), it does not been other beliefs are wrong.

Our high school is always over subscribed because it is the top performing school in the county. There is also a lot of children who attend who are not catholic. The main difference for me and my youngest was going up for communion during mass and crossing our arms instead of accepting bread. (Although ds has accepted bread because he wanted to see what it was like ).

So I would seriously say to people who may be thinking about a RC school, to visit, and talk to the students. I can only say what happens at our school, from pp it's apparent that some schools do prayers several times a day etc. So check it out, they aren't all the same. You may be surprised.

Liverpool perhaps?

Depends if it's old-fashioned fire and brimstone type Catholicism, or a more modern, compassionate ethos. I have worked in one of the latter and it was an amazing place, I would have sent my own children there in a heartbeat if we were catchment.

Just going to echo that you really need to research more into OFSTED ratings of your local schools. The difference between Good and Outstanding is often being lucky with a cohort of Year 6s who have done well, or having involved parents who support education, or doing all the right box-ticking, or having a good teaching/behaviour day when the inspectors are in.

I would be wary of a school in Special Measures and would want to know exactly how they got into that situation. (I work at a school in Special Measures... I wouldn't send my kid there but would to another one across the city - different reasons for their low ratings!)