Appeals and waiting lists for primary schools

[drspouse]

We heard we didn't get our first choice, our second choice is OK but not great for DS and we'd put in specific information about why the first choice would be better but we think they just ignored it.

In our area you automatically accept the allocated school and you have to fill in a form for either waiting list or appeal. So we'll fill in the form but we'll see if we're near the top of the waiting list in which case we probably won't bother appealing.

Anyone else?

I can well imagine it's been a very stressful time. You'll hold it together as you'll find your flow when you are in there... You have so much more to say than 'I don't like your decision / it's not fair'.

Do you have any experience of presenting a case to a group of people? Dont be afraid to pause them if you get flustered.... 'I just need a minute to review my notes' is a perfectly acceptable thing to say in a Crown court if you're losing your train of thought so it ought to be acceptable with the LA!

Easier said than done, but do try to remember its not a court of law, and will be as relaxed as possible. Panellists are used to parents being flustered, upset, and finding the whole process stressful. If your case is clear on paper, there is no need to repeat it all; just focus on the main bullet points. The panel will have read the case in advance and there is nothing to be gained by reading it all out. Good luck.

Thank you

I am terrible at speaking in public. I'm exceedingly shy and introverted. I also blush furiously and squeak.

I'm teetotal. The appeal is in the function room of a bar/restaurant. Maybe a sniff of spirits will do the trick.

The first part will have other parents present too (multiple appeal) so even more of an audience. Hooray (!)

Patricia, as it's ICS, will the first bit be quick? Will the panel ask many questions of the presenting officer in your experience. I'm guessing as prejudice is implicit, they agree this and it moves on quite quickly?

How many questions will depend on how good the presenting officer for the admissions authority is - I've had some very good ones which lay out everything very clearly and leave no real scope for questions, and some who aren't so good so you do occasionally have to clarify something.

There won't be much under an ICS appeal either way though really unless something odd is revealed (an error in measurement perhaps or the fact that the school has a spare reception classroom and teacher hanging around!) The parents may have some questions but often they aren't really ICS related, but the chair may well allow them anyway (for example, why dont children in the nursery get priority in admissions?)

Any questions at first stage that relate to an appellants own case will be parked by the chair and the parent asked to bring them up later.

Thank you.

The school has been over pan by 1 or 2 for 3 years in several infant classes. Is it worth asking questions about how they managed this? I know precedent is irrelevant so not sure how far to probe or if it serves a purpose. For example, they've mixed classes before to ensure even distribution and meaning they could admit extra pupils without prejudice iyswim. So, moving a few reception dc to y1 and opening up spaces that way. Shall I bring that up. They've always avoided qualifying measures.

My grammar and typing are wonky. My phone is unwell!

How they have managed over PAN (if PAN is a multiple of 30, or there are 30 per class in yr1/2 if they mix classes, so ICS appeal) doesn't have any relevance I'm afraid; as you know, appeals don't set precedents, and it's not up to the panel to tell the school how to organise classes.

The fact they did manage with say 31 another year (assuming someone else won an appeal in a previous year) has no impact on an ICS appeal as an ICS appeal is not about proving prejudice to the school is lower than prejudice to the child as it would be for a non ICS appeal.

The only question that is relevant about the infant classes with more than 30 in, is just to check how they came to have those numbers. I would assume that it is all above board and that they are either because of successful appeals (due to mistakes?) or because they have taken in pupils with a statement of special needs ? EHC Plan.
If by any remote chance they have been admitted incorrectly then it is fair enough to ask whether they can be made to take more pupils and also apply the requirement to employ a further qualified teacher. You might not get the answer you are looking for but it is worth the ask.

I don't think I've made myself clear. What I mean is that in previous years when for example 35 have applied for 30 places, they've then decided to reshuffle. So that the y1 class for example which has only 25 becomes a mixed yR/y1 with 30 and they've admitted the extra 5 to reception. So the school isn't at net capacity so reorganizing classes meant they could admit more than 30 new pupils.

If they have done this before, is it appropriate to ask why they can't do it again?

You can ask, but realistically, it doesn't help.

The fact they have been prepared to go over PAN before under a specific set of circumstances (a low number of Yr1 children) doesn't actually help in ICS, because, again, it's not up to the panel to instruct the school how to arrange their classes.

If they are up to PAN of 30 in reception, the fact that in previous years they have chosen to rearrange things doesn't help for an ICS appeal as it doesn't address the only issues under which a child can be admitted under ICS (error, illegal admissions criteria, unreasonableness as I'm sure you can recite yourself by now!). If they have not chosen to rearrange things this way this year, a panel cannot admit a child on the assumption they will do so again.

Of course you can ask, on the off chance the school have a number of appeals and they might, just might, make the decision themselves to admit over PAN and do the rejuggle off their own bat (assuming space in upper years). But it doesn't help an ICS appeal as the panel can't make them do this, or assume they will.

Thank you.

I think I'm just going to withdraw my appeal and give up work and home school. I can't do this anymore. My mental health has fallen through the floor and I can't do it.

Oh SoH. Is there anyone who can come with you to the appeal?

No. The only person is providing childcare as preschool has broken up today. We had a great leaving ceremony with all the little children in their new school groups and uniform and ds sitting on his own.

I can't do it. There's no point. We can't win and I have nothing to give. I don't sleep. I can't stop crying. I'll just admit that there's no point.

Don't withdraw whatever you do! Even if you don't turn up yourself at least they still have to consider your written evidence. Better still send someone else?

Titchy is correct. The panel have your submission, they can consider it on the written evidence, you don't have to go - there is no reason to withdraw, honestly.

There's no point though. Nobody won an appeal in our county last year. Not a single person. They are rigid in their approach. We have clear reasons why ds needs to go to the school. But they have no med/soc category so we couldn't apply using our circumstances. The circumstances exist though. They just aren't legally allowed to consider them. What's the point.

DS is only safe at your school
You didn't put that in your application
There's no way to include it at the point of application
Sorry that's the law, appeal failed

Pretty much sums it up.

They still have to phone and tell me I've failed. I know that.

I have to give up my job. 8 years as a SAHM and I had a life again. How do we pay the mortgage? What a mess.

Show, I have just clicked on this link and not read the whole thread but just wanted to message you my support. Even if you have no other reason to go through with it, knowing that you have done you absolute best for your DS is worth a lot.

And do hang on in there. Even now in my son's very oversubscribed, hard to get into school there are still parents recently turning down places for a variety of reasons, so lists do move.

As an aside, I remember you from you MIL shower thread - you come across exceedingly well on the page, I hope you know that. Sending you lots of confidence and resilience.

Sellotape

No please don't withdraw. If you can manage to go, and not say anything, then do that. Or let them consider your written evidence. Find a childminder to take DS for the Autumn term and stay on the waiting list. If he's a Spring birthday you have another term for the waiting list to move but I gather the usual time is September after they get no-shows.

He turns 5 two days before Autumn term starts. Childminders are like hen's teeth here. I just can't find an answer.

So he doesn't have to start till Jan. Lots of CMs will have children going to school and will now have daytime spaces. After December if you find a CM you can do "home ed" with DS part time at the CM and part time with you.

Please don't withdraw SoH. Even if you turn up and just answer any questions they have. You have to see this through now or you'll always wonder if he might have got a place.

You're in a completely shit situation and they have strung this out for far too long but you do need to make sure they at least give you an answer now.

Is there anything specific that you are worrying about with regards to the appeal that people on here can help you with?

Don't withdraw. We went to appeal, completely different situation but the thought of it was far worse than the reality. For the stage 1 having other parents there is good because they can ask the questions. In fact if you know anyone and you don't want to ask a question yourself then you can ask them to ask it. The panel members are just a bunch of normal people trying to make sure that it is all fair against the rules they have been given. Go, see what they say and then you will know that you did all that you could.

Well we failed. So that's that. No school for ds come September.

What the fucking fuck do we do?