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Military ethos in school

36 replies

littlemissbeth · 24/01/2015 18:39

Hi all,
I'm new to mumsnet, so please bare with me if I do anything wrong!
I would like to know your opinions and experience of "Commando Joes".
This is a company where ex soldiers go into schools (including my daughters primary school" to be a positive role model for children.
I feel that a man calling himself 'Commando Joe', wearing a military style uniform working with young children. I do not want my child growing up with any military values. It has been argued that these guys are a positive role model. I question this.After all, a commando is a trained killer, who leads others into raids. His outfit glorifies war.
I am concerned that children's opinions may be restricted.
I don't understand what makes an armed forces veteran particularly qualified to develop and improve life chances of young children. The key words here being 'armed' and 'forces'.
The deputy head has argued that there us no military ethos, in that case, why is it a selling point on commando joes website? Why is he wearing military uniform and why is he called commando joe?
The school had a new head and deputy a year and half ago and since then about 80% of old staff have left and newly qualified teachers have come in.
it also appears that commando joe is being used as a punishment tool. If children are naughty they have to spend a portion of play time with commando joe.
last week a few children were messing about in a class. Commando joe came in and said the whole class would miss lunch time on the friday. The idea if punnishing a whole class for the behaviour of a few in this day and age is shocking. During their detention, commando joe got the children to write letters to their parents explaining they had been naughty. My daughter had done nothing wrong, but she felt forced to own up to it because if she didn't, she'd get another detention.
I spoke to the class teacher last week and she said she would get the head to call me. She didn't but the deputy head did, and insisted that some of the things my girl had told me were not true. I said I'd discuss it with her but made it clear that I didn't want my daughter growing up with military ethos. She insisted there was no military ethos, but I raised the points about his name and uniform.
My daughter came home crying that day, because before I'd spoken to the deputy, she'd called my daughter into the office and accused her of spreading rumours. She reduced her to tears then told her iff for crying.
my daughter was shocked and horrified when I told her that the deputy said her claims weren't true. She swears that they are true, and I believe her.
I'm absolutely stunned by all this and last night I was up with my daughter who'd had nightmares about monsters being in school.
I know her claims to be true, as another girl told her mum te exact same things. Trouble is, that mum won't say anything because she doesn't want to make things harder at school.
Anyone else had dealings with this type of thing? Would appreciate your views on military ethos within schools.
Thanks

OP posts:
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CommandoJoesMD1 · 27/01/2015 10:32

Good morning little miss beth. ( and team ) I hope its ok I post :0)

As the founder of Commando Joe's I would love to explain our ethos and my vision for our organisation and hopefully put your reservations and mind at rest. :0) I set up CJ's after being in the military for 8 years, I loved the Army however I got to the point where I missed home and family. Before I left I worked on a team which delivered sessions into schools ( Secondary ).

Pupils , staff and SLT loved the sessions on teamwork and communication skills , however i felt that it was promoting the military to much and didn't give a rounded view on joining the Military. I was a personal trainer and a royal engineer. My role was to help rebuild villages and help with water supply in countries which did not have that capability.

I left the military and lectured for 3 years and gained a Cert Ed. The military gave me some amazing skills, confidence , teamwork, smartness, leadership , ambition, resilience , character, boosted my self esteem and values that are not military but just good to have in life.

Most our of staff are ex -military but we have 15 who are not and they go through a 6 week training programme that they must pass. We have interviewed over 800 people for 50 jobs .Not every ex-military person has the aptitude or skill set to help young people and we only employ the very best staff who can inspire young people to achieve whatever it is they want to do.

We never sign post anyone to the military and my staff know if they ever do, it is a sackable offence.Our ethos is No Child Left Behind , so pupils who don't normally excel in physical activity or team games and tasks, get the chance to be at the front and develop. Every school use's us in a different way and I'm trying so hard to get away from the " Can we use you for bad behaviour" Thats not what we do and it doesn't work. Low ability , middle ability and gifted and talented pupils all should get access to any great provision.

It about working with the whole school, every pupil should have the chance to see Commando Joe or Jane and work on fun tasks and guided reading sessions. We are quite different to any other provider as our programme is reward based so pupils need to do well to come to our sessions. ( Thats just good school values of listening on class and trying trying hard and never giving up).

I really do understand your reservations as i have a 3 year old daughter myself and if i was in your position I would be asking the exact same questions.I think in this case we could of or the school could have told parents what the programme was about and what we wanted to acheive by support pupils , parents and teachers . Our own communication doesn't sound to great on this one !

We are just looking at changing our combats and boots from British military to our own camouflage. Our idea is that it will help us not to be perceived as a military ethos but a commando joes and school ethos. As that is such a far cry from what we do. We are currently working in over 300 schools with 60k young people and the schools ask us to come and work with them. We are looking at running a competition for the pupils, we would like them to design our uniform and what they think it should look like including our ethos. Help each other and ourselves in school and the community through -Teamwork , Resilience, Character , Communication and Health and wellbeing.

If I may suggest that you speak to the instructor or the head and ask to come into school to watch a session ? You will see how good our staff are with the pupils and how much they love the sessions. I hope this helps if i can help in any way please let me know. Thank you Mike

EveDallasRetd · 27/01/2015 10:51

Fair play Mike, a much better insight into your organisation (might I gently suggest that something similar would be a good idea on your website, it explains your aim more comprehensively).

So were you on an ART or CTT?

diamondage · 27/01/2015 10:56

Mike,

Interesting for you to come and post a personal point of view.

So you say "Every school use's us in a different way and I'm trying so hard to get away from the 'Can we use you for bad behaviour'. That's not what we do and it doesn't work."

Yet on the front page of your website it says ... "Our bespoke programme has a proven track record in improving attendance, behaviour and ultimately attainment.

So which is it - are you there to improve behaviour, or do you not do that because it doesn't work?

EveDallasRetd · 27/01/2015 10:58

I read that as the whole programme having the added side benefit of improving behaviour (ie through teamwork, comradeship etc) rather than them having a 'behaviour lesson' as such.

CommandoJoesMD1 · 27/01/2015 11:17

Hi All,

You are right we need to develop our message and the right message, better than we have thus far. EveDallasRetd is spot on , we want to spread a happy ethos of pupils having the right behaviour for learning through our team building tasks and games. I believe that the only way to improve behaviour if needed , is by the whole school approach. One person cannot change a school ethos, it comes from great leadership and hopefully this is filtered down to the hardworking teachers and then hopefully that reflects to a happy ,thriving environment for our children to learn and prosper. Hope this helps :0)
Thanks Mike

diamondage · 27/01/2015 11:27

Eve - you may be right.

It also states on the website that the programme is validated by Swansea University.

Here is the information regarding the grant secured by Dr Kelly Mackintosh, who produced this piece of research:

Hamilton, M., Roberts, H. & Mackintosh, K.A. (2012). Evaluating the effect of a military style intervention in hard to reach children. Department of Education. £600,000.

It seems to me that the proven track record relates to secondary school, hard to reach pupils. That's all fair enough, bar the fact that military schools may then become the norm. After all there are a fair few ex military personnel who may appreciate a jobs market tailored to them and seemingly an inability for schools to tackle these issue through teaching staff.

However coming back to the OP, it's about a primary school where the Commando Joe is going into the classroom to make behaviour interventions. Whole class ones at that, where pupils that had not engaged in poor behaviour had to write a letter apologising - presumably for having the temerity for being in the class room whilst other pupils were misbehaving. Mission creep perhaps?

Quitethewoodsman · 27/01/2015 21:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KiaOraOAotearoa · 28/01/2015 06:09

I would be furious if my DDs school brought a 'commando Joe' in. What?!!!
I don't want my child anywhere near any military anything. Fair play if one does want their child to have anything to do with it, they have every right to, and I am not judging. I prefer a totally different approach.
OP, did you guys have a say in bringing this company in? Were you explained what is it for and how are they going to work? Why does it take so long for you to see the head? Mine's forever in the playground and she might as well remove the door to her office, it is always open, you can just walk in.

AuntieStella · 28/01/2015 06:55

The parents probably had no say.

It wouldn't matter if the school had brought in the WI.

It would still be wrong to have an outside provider used as a punishment provider.

The problem here is totally about the decision making in the school.

Floppityflop · 28/01/2015 07:10

Maybe Commando Joe isn't exactly happy about being used as a disciplinarian? Perhaps he hoped on civvy street he would be a positive role model and punishing the whole class for one person being naughty is a fairly tried and tested method of discipline in schools and workplaces in cases where the culprit doesn't confess. But perhaps extracting confessions took it too far. Has the feedback been passed back to him?

Floppityflop · 28/01/2015 07:13

Oh, I see he's replied. Just found this link www.gov.uk/government/news/ex-military-personnel-to-drive-up-standards-among-disengaged-pupils

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