4+, 5+, 7+ madness 2015 - who's going to join me?

[4pluspsycho]

Following on from the 2014 thread, I've decided to name change and start a new one for 2015: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/a1905744-3-4-5-7-support-thread-2014

My dd will be sitting assessments for 3 schools in the coming months. I've tried to 'tutor' her myself, but in reality it's a half hearted attempt (from both of us!)

I'm hypocritical in the sense I'd really like her to go to 2 of the 3 schools; but do feel guilty trying to 'prepare' her, when I can see she's not at all interested in pencil control, shapes etc.

I'm going to give it our best shot through relaxed, play based learning and then see what happens on the day.

Anyone else or am I the only one?

[GlacindaTheTroll]

"Hello, female children. Allow me to inspire you with a story about a great female scientist. Polish born, French educated Madame Curie. Co-discover of radioactivity. She was a hero of science until her hair fell out, her vomit and stool became full with blood and she was poisoned to death by her own discovery. With a little hard work I see no reason why that can't also happen to any of you."

[Ohtobeanonymous]

Hear, hear Biscuits!

The fast paced academic school is a great environment FOR THE RIGHT CHILD. If you are having to tutor a pre-schooler, I would hazard a guess you are doing them a huge disservice, not to mention causing yourself unnecessary anxiety.

I say this as someone whose DD passed the 7+ at a very 'academic' indie without any such palaver. She wasn't ready at 4, I could tell - she just wanted to de-robe at every opportunity and refused to speak to adults that she didn't know! However, since starting her new school in Year 3 she loves going to school and is thriving in that environment, unlike some of her friends who were heavily prepared and are still heavily tutored to keep up with the regular work. So sad.

Whether the same relaxed approach will work for her 11+ remains to be seen!

[Lastmindotcom]

I asked simply for suggestions or advice so that I can describe to my daughter what she can expect to see as scene setting is important in an unfamiliar environment. If I wanted to prep her I would have posted this question months ago not days before.

[BetterDay]

Lastmin, I think that they might be assessed on the following areas:
following instructions in groups of various sizes;
working memory - following a series of instructions;
tasks involving coordination and balance;
as well as further 1:1 and small group assessment that looks at verbal and non-verbal ability.

[EdithWeston]

I think there has been a lot of talking about the input from tutors, and even the discussion starts to 'normalise' it.

But there's a big difference between being able to tell your DC about what's going to happen on the day (sorry don't know why trainers at that specific event) so fewer surprises and generally a bit better at coping; and tutoring in the sense of teaching specific (academic) skills.

London can be very much a hothouse, and it continues at all school selection points (look at the current 10/11+ threads, of any grammar school thread). Much of it is down to parental worries, and the normalisation of the tutor.

[PhdshehD]

oh glacinda, glacinda, you make me laugh! I am breaking a cardinal internet rule of not feeding the troll. I commend you on knowing so much about MC, you got one very important fact wrong. Marie IS and will forever remain a hero in science and at large. I should know the clue is in my name. Dying a bloody and painful death is not a preserve of celebrated female scientists, the soldiers on our borders, doctors in Sierra Leone and so many countless unsung heros and regular folk. However look up how many people men/women in any field have 2 Nobel prizes and that will tell you how very exceptional it is! I pray to the troll Gods your family never needs to use Marie's discoveries.

[BetterDay]

PhD, well said and ??
It's easy to assume that a tutor is someone who will (be able to) teach/ pressurise a 3 year old into attaining a set of skills that have not yet been achieved. On the contrary, a tutor cannot affect a very young child developmentally a but can introduce both parent and child to activities across the range of skills that may come up in assessment. Whether or not these skills are going to be assessed, they are skills that will inevitably prove to be useful and lay complementary foundations for a child who's about to start primary school.

The government has put so much pressure on nurseries and Early Year settings not to formally teach letter sounds, handwriting (how to hold a pencil, name writing, letter and number formation, etc.). Typically, these are amongst some of the skills assessed at 4+. Instead, nurseries have been encouraged (by the Government and OFSTED) to focus on child-centred play and learning through play. Invaluable, but often not enough to lay foundations for good habits (particularly with handwriting grasp) that will support them as they begin their primary schooling. Perhaps this is why many private schools assess applicants.

Parents who have the ability to support their children in these areas, but who are relying on nurseries to do so, are not surprisingly disappointed. Many mummies work and/or do not have the knowledge or confidence to carry out these tasks with their children at home. A tutor can offer simple guidance, structure and reassurance as to which areas and which activities to play with / 'work on'.

The more formal skills CAN be introduced with a 'playful and fun' approach. Children tend to love them! It's also really useful to identify those areas that are particularly tricky for a child (and to bear these in mind as they develop, encouraging good habits and having our eyes open to possible difficulties) as well as to note individual strengths. We rarely get to hear such specific feedback on our young children.

An honest tutor wouldn't guarantee that a child would be offered a place as a result of practising these skills. So much is affected by the natural ability of each individual as well as by their their personality, working memory, coordination, phonological awareness, verbal ability and vocabulary, ability to follow instructions, confidence, etc.

Assessments are certainly not looking for children who can tick all the 'skill boxes' but who can't recall or follow a set of simple instructions. Good nurseries are really helpful in terms of providing children with the opportunity to develop many of the social skills involved in schooling, etc.

[GlacindaTheTroll]

I'm glad you had a giggle, PhdshehD.

But I can claim zero credit for the wording. It's in quotation marks because it's a line from Sheldon in TBBT.

(username is a homage to that programme too)

[SamRan]

Dear mumsnetters, have anyone heard back from HABS for 4+ interviews?

[BetterDay]

SamRan, no.

[SamRan]

Thanks BetterDay, My daughter did the St.Helens 4 + too, any idea when they would get back to us?

[BetterDay]

I don't, Sam. Sorry.

[BetterDay]

Sam, I'd call the school's Admissions Secretary in the morning. She'll be able to tell you. They know that most girls will be sitting for several schools so is sore to understand your confusion and angst. It's all about timetabling too, as some schools expect acceptance (and deposits) I advance of other schools' offers.

[SamRan]

Thanks a lot BetterDay. Would ring them tomorrow

[Moominmammacat]

This doesn't prove a thing but to give you all a little perspective 15 years down the line ... I worried about this, like you, when my children were toddlers. Three friends, my DS2, failing primary, local comp, A level results AAA, his bf, home-schooled until 11, then local comp, A*AA, child 3, poncy prep then top public school, ABB. And they have all gone to the same RG uni to read engineering. Just saying ... chill!

[BetterDay]

Moomin, so true.

[examnewbie]

Does anyone happen to know what round 2 of habs 7+ for boys covers? I was just wondering as have no idea. Thank you.

[Goldleaves1]

Hi All,
Have Habs 4+ (girls) been called for round 2?

[BetterDay]

Habs. 4+ letters are in the post. Should arrive either tomorrow or Thursday. If you've not heard by Thursday's post, you're advised to call them.

[Snfrog2]

Are you sure re letters for Habs 4+. I know someone who got an email today inviting them for round 2. Was presuming an email today was good news, a letter tomorrow was a rejection.

[BetterDay]

Hi Snfrog, how utterly confusing. I heard that someone received a letter today saying that they'd NOT made it through to second round (Habs). Not an email.
I called today and was told that letters were going out in this afternoon's post (that they'd been collected by the postman) and to expect them tomorrow or on Thursday - but to call if I hadn't heard by Thursday's post.

[Snfrog2]

Thank you BetterDay for clarifying. Roll on the postman tomorrow then xx

[North123]

Has anybody heard from habs in respect of 7+ girls entry ???

[Brightideas]

I think that results will be sent out by letter on Monday (2/2/15). Emails will be sent the following day, to put those of us with snail mail out of our misery.

[hello23]

Hello. Has anyone heard from Habs or NLCS for 4+ offers?