4+, 5+, 7+ madness 2015 - who's going to join me?

[4pluspsycho]

Following on from the 2014 thread, I've decided to name change and start a new one for 2015: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/a1905744-3-4-5-7-support-thread-2014

My dd will be sitting assessments for 3 schools in the coming months. I've tried to 'tutor' her myself, but in reality it's a half hearted attempt (from both of us!)

I'm hypocritical in the sense I'd really like her to go to 2 of the 3 schools; but do feel guilty trying to 'prepare' her, when I can see she's not at all interested in pencil control, shapes etc.

I'm going to give it our best shot through relaxed, play based learning and then see what happens on the day.

Anyone else or am I the only one?

[Goldleaves1]

Anyone know what is expected at the Group Activity Morning at Habs 7+? Thanks

[Elfina]

Does anyone know of academic schools for a little in south London (4+)?

[areyoutheregoditsmemargaret]

I agree with everything nonreplicable said. Do not be conned by the hype. You can easily prep for 7+ yourself whatever kind of school your child attends and if they are the right sort of child for these schools, they stand an excellent chance.

It's nonsense to use an example of a child at an outstanding primary, tutored for a year failing to mean that that's the state system's fault and the child would have succeeded from a pre-prep. Lots of the tutored, pre-prep children don't get places at the very competitive schools either. Maybe the child just didn't have what it took - ime, at 7, schools are looking for excellent reader and quick at maths and reasonably mature. That's something some children have and some children don't.

[thankgoditsover]

I have no experience of 7+ but my ds just did well in N London 11+ private exams (less well in the grammars, but hey ho) for schools considered v selective. He comes from a requires improvement state school and had no head's reports. He's one of the brighter ones in his class, but in no way exceptional (he's in a group of five or six I'd say).

So going by our experience, either the 7+ is much harder than the 11+ or there is a bit of hyperbole around it.

[AnonyMusty]

State schools often have less homework than (even the little bit for younger children) in private/ prep schools. For this reason (and for those and parents who want / are keen to put some work in between lessons (tuition), its sometimes easier to make progress lesson to lesson with state educated children - as they've consolidated what was previously taught and completed exercises to highlight what needs to be focussed upon next).

The difficulty that some state educated children have had is that they've exceeded the teachers' expectations and they can find it tricky to differentiate as highly as is necessary.

[mrsvilliers]

This is really interesting, thank you everybody. My husband read somewhere that they need to be at level 5 in state to be on the bottom tier of a prep so the 1-2 years ahead would kind of make sense. Seems completely mad to go state and then get a tutor but maybe that's what you do (I am no teacher!). We're also having to keep him out of school for the first term of reception to further complicate matters internal panic sets off again

[AnonyMusty]

Things are every bit as crazy outside Central London at the more academic prep. and private schools, MMom.

[MMmomKK]

Mrs - it does make sense to find out what your son would be tested on at 7+. And then you'd need to make sure that your son's progress is tracking to that goal.

My guess is that anywhere outside of Central London things are not as crazy. Here at 7+ boys are expected to be 1-2 years ahead of National Curriculum, and even then, most don't make it.

Boys pre-preps don't waste any time - a friend's son, currently in Reception, is working on two digit additions right now, while at a state school they'll be slowly working through number bonds to 10. Same with reading, same with everything else.

A friend with a DS in an outstanding state school (one of the top in the city) - tried really hard last year. She worked with him for over a year w/o a tutor. Poor thing didn't even get an interview at WUS/CC.

[Nonreplicable]

My kids were at a non-selective prep which goes up to year 6 so they do not prepare children for the 7+. In fact, some parents believe they deliberately take it slow in the first 3 years (although I don't think that's the case, they just don't do any targeted prep).

My children were not any more advanced than their state school peers by year 2, in my opinion.

[AnonyMusty]

Good luck!
Don't panic!

[mrsvilliers]

Nonrep were your kids in state or pre-prep?

Anony, thanks for your advice! I will contact the schools in question and see what they do.

[AnonyMusty]

I agree with Nonrep.

[Nonreplicable]

Do not believe the hype! I think mumteacher starts these threads every year to feed parents' angst. It is self fulfilling! The more people stress, the more business for the private tutors to "tutor" 3-4 year olds.

I prepared my two for the 7+ myself. I work full time so did not have that much time. I started in the January of Year 1 and used Bond books. We did about half an hour work on weekends. Maths for 6-year olds is not hard!

Unless you are going for Collet Court or similar (and probably even then), I am pretty sure a well organised paren can save themselves a fortune.

[AnonyMusty]

Oh gosh. It's so hard to know. I do wish you luck. It's sometimes a good idea to contact the Admissons Secretary directly to ask exactly (as far as they'll tell you) what the assessments will comprise of / for previous and for specimen papers. This should give you some idea - although word of mouth is often the most useful gauge of the measure of a particular school's assessment (degree of difficulty and competition).

[mrsvilliers]

Thanks Anony, he's only 4, long story but we're currently in London and in a bit of a mess wrt primary schools. I don't know whether it would be better to take the financial pain now ( have younger Dd and currently not working) rather than have major stress going state and trying to prep for 7+. The prep schools we are thinking of are in the Midlands and don't assess for entry at 4 or 5 but do after. I went to a v results oriented prep that fed into a v results oriented grammar so just assumed all schools were like that. But apparently not!

[AnonyMusty]

Mrsv, I'd not say you were being naive as not all private schools prepare children well for 7+ entry to other schools and some 7+ entry assessments are more academic than others.
It's also worth noting that many of those who are currently privately school educated children will be using tutors or working hard at home to prepare for the exams. But DON'T PANIC! Are your exams in January? You've plenty of time to fill gaps if your DC is able. I don't know which school(s) you're going for, but assessments vary so widely in what they're expecting and in the competition and academic calibre of the cohort sitting for them.
Good luck!

[mrsvilliers]

Hi everyone, we were going to go private with DS from the beginning but for various reasons decided to do state for the first three years. Seeing this thread has made me panic slightly as I have never heard of these assessments! If I do state for three years will he still need tutoring to pass a prep school entrance? Am I being totally naive at how much a state school can teach compared to a pre prep?

[AnonyMusty]

HPFA, the assessments reveal far more about a child's ability and potential than the mechanics of holding a pencil and name writing. They are generally cleverly constructed assessments that help schools to draw conclusions about their potential as well as flag up certain potential difficulties or behaviours that they'd rather not have/ cater for.

[HPFA]

Do people really tutor four-year-olds?? How is being able to write your name at four a sign of intelligence -it would surely reflect whether or not you've been taught to do so- I can't see how on earth it means any more than that?

[sasha12345]

Hey mums,

my daughter passed the 4plus for st helens (very stressful experience). After reading the threads i am now thinking of applying for Habs 5plus. I can anyone help and give me an insight on how i should prepare her?

[shoutymcshoutsmum]

We can stay at our pre-prep for another year so not a problem.... yet. DS has an end of August birthday so hopefully the difference between the different boys due to age will be a little less... Maybe?

[TrojanWhore]

The waiting can be absolutely dreadful in its endlessness.

Do you have other options? For clever boys, the differences between any school in the top 250 or so is really not going to make a big difference to how he turns out.

[Wineatalltimes]

Also on the CC 7+ reserve list - just started a separate thread about this - happy to chat here though instead. The waiting seems endless after waiting for exams, waiting for interview yes/no letter and waiting for yes/no/reserve list letter already!

[shoutymcshoutsmum]

I thought that they might have to but was hoping against hope. Thanks for the expectation management.