Fraudulent application - number 1 on waiting list

[Baggin123]

Late June we reported a fraudulent application to the local authority admissions team. One boy has received a place in reception on the back of using his grand parents local address. We have identified the parents real address online by using electoral register and supplied the admissions team the information. The address used was the same address used to secure the boys place for nursery which is attached to the school. The electoral register shows the real address but also shows the Mother as a recent addition to the local address. So she is actually present on both addresses. This suggests they have been very clever to make sure they have covered their tracks.

The local admissions team thanked us for the information and said they shall investigate. However, everything time we ask for an update they say due to confidentiality they can not comment on the results of the investigation or even confirm they are still investigating. The only change we have noticed is on the electoral register the Mother is no longer present on the grandmothers local address, which seems odd.

Does anyone know how long the process takes to identify the fraud and then withdraw a place? We are finding this frustrating because our son is number 1 on the waiting list for this school. We are concerned because the Mother previously won her son a place in the nursery attached to the school using the grandmothers address and has had a year of the school thinking she lives at the local address and probably has had time to put her name down on utility bill and other documentation. Despite this we are confident they still live as a family unit at the address that would not win their son a place.

Any insight shared would be greatly appreciated.

[LIZS]

Council tax and electoral roll are separate.

[jamtoast12]

It's disgusting behavior IMO and make no mistake, those families are ostracized by parents once they start school if they find out. The one parent who managed to cover their tracks in our school, enough to gain a place, has not seen their dc be invited to a class party in 3 years. Terrible for the kids I know but this child only has a tiny group of friends (those whose parents covered and agreed with her) as the parents whose friends kids didn't get in have never forgotten it and told everyone! Obviously all the kids get along well as they're non the wiser but no one invites them on big days out with all the mums etc as it directly affected one or two and as most of you know, schools are very clicky!

Those who support fraud may want to consider the affect it will have once the kids start school because the playground spreads news like wild fire and it won't take long for people to get suspicious when asked over for tea etc.

[allisgood1]

Wow. Some people will obviously go very far to get their child into their choice school. Don't know what else to say other than you're slightly cruel OP.

[jamtoast12]

allisgood1 seriously have you even read the thread?

[NynaevesSister]

The OP is cruel?! How do you work that out? If someone applies for a school place fraudulently do you not think they are being far worse to the poor child who didn't get in?

In some parts of the country this is a terrible problem. And causes a lot of heartache. Even if the OP hadn't reported it is likely that this person wouldhave been caught. Our LA does an electoral register check on everyone.

[MumTryingHerBest]

allisgood1 - Wow. Some people will obviously go very far to get their child into their choice school yes some people even go as far as lying about where they live.

Of course those parents who knowingly lie to get a place for their child or those who feel that they are just too important to follow the admissions procedure are not really being cruel in depriving another child of a school place they were legitimately entitled to.

[VelvetEmbers]

I don't blame you OP, and I wish I'd done the same. Our NDN-but-one's GDD got a place at the primary school we wanted (nearest school). We don't know where she actually lives and couldn't prove there was fraud involved, but I wish I'd gone with my initial instinct to ring admissions and just say if they had used that address it was grandmas, and she doesn't live there.

And for all those saying it's cruel, why should people use a false address and deprive children who genuinely live in the area a place at their local school?

[LIZS]

But op can't know, nor would LA tell her, if this child has a legitimate right to a place . Maybe he has been admitted under SEN/Looked after or other exceptional needs ? Unless all places have been allocated on distance criteria, only the LA will know which category he fell into.

[Toohotforfishandchips]

Velvet - is it too late to make that call. I am totally behind the anti fraud posters on here and many good points made. I was shocked by an early poster who said 'one lovely family at our school used GP address as they offer free childcare so that's fine' !!!! Try living in a place where it's a desperate fight to secure a good local school place - esp for those who can not pay and go private and do not pray

[admission]

I have to agree with Tiggytape that anybody who suspects that a pupil has got a place at a school due to incorrect information being given to the LA should be reported. I do not know of any LA who do not treat this situation seriously (but there probably are, I accept) and investigate thoroughly any complaint that does come in.
You also need to understand that the LA does have a significant level of data that they can use to cross-match applications with when it comes to addresses. They do this cross-matching early on in admission process and many potential "frauds" are headed off early on in the process and the parents made to reapply with a correct address. I know for instances in my LA that around schools with particular problems with admissions particular houses / flats that are known to be rented out are red-flagged. If someone applies with that address it immediately rings alarm bells and will be investigated carefully.
There was a program on TV a while ago, which was about admissions to schools and was about Birmingham LA. Knocks on doors in the evenings were the order of the day when they had a suspicious application to see whether the child was living there on a permanent basis.
The LA can do a lot but at the end of the day it does also depend on the schools and parents to say something when parents are cheating, so that these people can be caught and embarrassed. If proved to be cheating the place will in most cases be taken off the pupil and it certainly happens after the pupil has started at the school, so you should not assume that once they start the slate is wiped clean.

[jamtoast12]

Lizs going from the ops post alone, there is no question about the address used. Going purely by the post, somehow the op knows they used the grandparents address on their application and not their own. Therefore unless they've moved in with them it must be fraud. If they've been admitted under social and health categories, they will have been admitted under any address - they'd be no need to use grandparents address. If she knows for sure that they used gps address (post reads that she does) then the only question is where they actually live. We knew 100% where the parents lived in our school. Most people did as it's a small town and everyone knows everyone. There was no question of them being admitted under other categories as we knew 100% which address went on form. Sounds like op does too.

[MumTryingHerBest]

LIZS Maybe he has been admitted under SEN/Looked after or other exceptional needs ? Unless all places have been allocated on distance criteria and just maybe the child has been admitted on the basis of an address they don't live at.

only the LA will know which category he fell into. And your point is what exactly?

If there was a requirement for the full facts of all fraud cases to be known before they were reported, very few people, if anyone, would ever get convicted for committing fraud. This is exactly why investigations are carried out - to establish the facts and gather evidence.

[LIZS]

Of course op has the right to question whether it is fraud . My point is that she only has a snapshot of some of the details apparently used for the application and there may be other circumstances which would override the address etc and are less evident. She could be right , she may know more about the family than a quick google throws up, the LA confronts parents and withdraws place, her ds gets in but there is still a chance that the application could be valid. Of course there is also a chance than another pupil has been admitted using dubious information which then throws up a place.

[iK8]

If I had even the slightest suspicion a fraudulent application had been made for the school where my child was on the waiting list I would not hesitate for second to report it. I wouldn't feel bad about the potential outcome of doing that because either everything will be above board and so the family involved will never know anything different and if it was a fraudulent application the only person to blame is the person who made the fraudulent declaration. It would be their actions that would have tried to deprive my child and their actions that would cause the upset to their child.

I don't believe for a single second that any parent (who gives a shit about they child) who found themselves in the op's position would prioritise the other child's needs above their own child's. What kind of parent woud do that? My job as a parent, my only job, is to put my child's needs first.

I'd not phone for an update after the report but I would be on the phone wanting to know if there was any news every week by August if we were placeless. I would never shun or punish a child either as described above but I would totally go after anyone who deprived my child of something that the current system says is his/her entitlement.

[VelvetEmbers]

Toohot yes, far too late for us. DD starts Y3 in September . It just crosses my mind when I see grandma driving the DD of a morning, when it's just a 10 min walk from our house, and we have a 20 min slog in the other direction (plus they have a later finish and an ASC, both of which we could have done with).

[louisejxxx]

I think it would be safe to assume, if the fraudster's child was likely to be getting a place due to having special needs or similar, then the parents wouldn't need to put the grandparents address down in the first place as they'd be pretty much guaranteed a place over anyone else anyway!

[Magpiemystery]

I have neighbours who have I am sure submitted a fraudulent application. I've done done digging around on the land Registry and it looks like they were temporarily renting next to the school. I've reported but I bet they get away with it. Makes my blood boil with fury.

It will be interesting to see what uniform the kid has on in a week or so.....

[ladybirdandsnails]

Magpie you must keep us updated lol. That will be rife near us in the first 1/2 term as people who missed out on places will be looking for our distinctive uniform appearing in odd places and those that got in honestly will be too as they have got friends left behind ...

[NoLogos]

This is a hugely emotive issue. Well done OP. DD is due to start primary in Sept, we didnt get our out of catchment school originally. We are only just out of catchment. But we do know someone lied to get their DD into said outstanding school. We were happy enough with our allocated school but the fraud issue was niggling away at the back of my mind. DD was 2 on the waiting list then she moved to 5 then miraculously we offered a place at the outstanding school.

Fraud is fraud and I decided to report even though my child had a place at the preferred school. I have done nothing wrong, the other parents have and if thier child loses her place so be it; they knew the consquences if they were to be found out.

I have since found out about 2 other fraudulent applications and Fraud is rife in my borough but Im not sure what the council do to prevent it. It is not fair that people who have the means (renting in catchment areas and leaving properties empty) and audacity to do so take away places from other children. I am now thinking of writing to the local press about it.

And before anyone asks I know exactly the situations in all 3 cases of fraud as they are aquantaines or in one case renting a property from a relative in the same town as their owned prooerty.

[ladybirdandsnails]

No logos I know exactly how you feel. It's mad that people can do it relatively easily if they have parents / family near a school or can rent another property etc heart breaking for those who miss out

[baffledmum]

I think the OP should be congratulated on trying to do something positive in what is a stressful situation. I was in many years ago and you do become over focussed on it, but I challenge anyone faced with having their child's school place seemingly stolen from in front of them from doing differently. It's nothing to do with removing a child unreasonably, if the place was taken fraudulently in the first place then the child shouldn't be there at all. If, however, the place was given correctly then the LA should be able to issue you with a statement to that effect. I don't think you are being a big enough PITA, to be honest. I think you need to get tough with the LA and demand answers. Can you ask them to confirm that all places have been allocated in line with the admissions code and make it clear that you are not looking for the specifics of this case? All you want is a simple yes or no.

[Ilelo]

jamtoast12 It's really cruel to exclude children like that regardless of what the parents did to get the kids in ... and 3 years on????

Hope all the other parents are just as ashamed of themselves as the one that lied to get in.