Fraudulent application - number 1 on waiting list

[Baggin123]

Late June we reported a fraudulent application to the local authority admissions team. One boy has received a place in reception on the back of using his grand parents local address. We have identified the parents real address online by using electoral register and supplied the admissions team the information. The address used was the same address used to secure the boys place for nursery which is attached to the school. The electoral register shows the real address but also shows the Mother as a recent addition to the local address. So she is actually present on both addresses. This suggests they have been very clever to make sure they have covered their tracks.

The local admissions team thanked us for the information and said they shall investigate. However, everything time we ask for an update they say due to confidentiality they can not comment on the results of the investigation or even confirm they are still investigating. The only change we have noticed is on the electoral register the Mother is no longer present on the grandmothers local address, which seems odd.

Does anyone know how long the process takes to identify the fraud and then withdraw a place? We are finding this frustrating because our son is number 1 on the waiting list for this school. We are concerned because the Mother previously won her son a place in the nursery attached to the school using the grandmothers address and has had a year of the school thinking she lives at the local address and probably has had time to put her name down on utility bill and other documentation. Despite this we are confident they still live as a family unit at the address that would not win their son a place.

Any insight shared would be greatly appreciated.

[Toohotforfishandchips]

To be fair the OP just wanted to know how it works and when she might hear etc. with 3 weeks until term starts and uniform etc to buy I am sure she is anxious to find out what school her DS is going to. I have a friend in a similar position, who is facing sending her DD to a school she hates whilst she waits to hear if she gets a last minute place. History says places come up at the last minute. She is really stressed out, in tears every day etc and putting off buying uniform hoping for good news.

[MumTryingHerBest]

xvxvxvxvxvxvxvxv Wow. Verging on stalking. & NigellasPeeler agree it all sounds very stalkerish what doing an internet search?

Lucy61 - No one stole anything! the OP didn't say they did.

Lucy61 - You don't know what this child's circumstances are. Neither do you. If I suspected someone had fraudulently obtained a school place I would pass the details onto the LA and let them investigate, in exactly the same way the OP did. Simply turning a blind eye is making a mockery of the school allocation process. There is a reason schools have admissions criteria. Please feel free to show me any schools' admissions criteria that states that they are quite happy for parents to put their preferred address on the application form.

It all sounds a bit nasty to me. Interesting you think it is nasty for reporting someone who may have committed fraud. Just hope I don't have to rely on you as a witness in a crime.

[MumTryingHerBest]

hollie84 - You must know a lot about this family to be sure the child isn't living with his grandparents, isn'd adopted, isn't a looked after child, doesn't have special needs... the OP doesn't need to know any of this, the LA will establish the facts and act accordingly.

[OwlCapone]

He's not going to be moved at this late stage, and of he is moved, there is no guarantee your child will be next in line.

Any child found to have gained a place through a fraudulent application is indeed at risk of losing it at any time. The OPs child is #1 on the waiting list so they will get the place unless someone sneaks ahead on the list.

No one stole anything! You don't know what this child's circumstances are

A place gained fraudulently is one which has been taken from another child, preventing them from attending that school. That is why I used the word "effectively" before stolen.

Of course I don't know what the child's circumstances are and I don't need to - if it is investigated and there are special circumstances then the child has a place which they were entitled to and there is no problem. The only time an accusation and subsequent investigation causes a problem is if a parent has lied. If they were honest then they, and their child, have nothing to worry about.

[OwlCapone]

Anyway, these threads always go the same way.

1. There are posters who agree that fraudulently gaining a place at a school is wrong and
   
2. There are posters who cry "What about the poor child who might lose their place! Mind your own business!" whilst forgetting that another child has lost a place to which they were entitled.

[SoonToBeSix]

Op schools have their own procedures in ace to detect fraud. You are just coming across as plain nasty.

[Toohotforfishandchips]

You are so right owl. I wonder if people would switch sides if they lived in a place of dire shortages of school places and it was their child who was sent off to a school that they hated / was failing etc as some one cheated....Sigh

[MumTryingHerBest]

SoonToBeSix Op schools have their own procedures in ace to detect fraud. You are just coming across as plain nasty. In some instances the school will investigate fraud in others the LA will. If is was the responsibility of the school in the OPs case, I am pretty confident the LA would have informed them of this.

[hollie84]

The OP didn't just ask the admissions people to investigate, she did her own stalking investigations about this family.

[MumTryingHerBest]

Toohotforfishandchips You are so right owl. I wonder if people would switch sides if they lived in a place of dire shortages of school places and it was their child who was sent off to a school that they hated / was failing etc as some one cheated....Sigh or perhaps they feel it is quite justified as they have done the same to gain a place for their DC ;-)

[MumTryingHerBest]

hollie84 she did her own stalking investigations about this family. So a simple internet search is stalking?

So you feel she should have just reported them without establishing that there was good reason to suspect that they had committed fraud? I think if we all did that Schools and LA would never have enough resources to carry out all the checks required.

[Toohotforfishandchips]

Mum true again on both counts.

1. They think it's fine as they have or would do it
2. You have to give the LA enough info so that they will investigate and take your complaint seriously. OP did that and yes justified

[MaryWestmacott]

OP - ignoring the rights and wrongs of this, I believe now it's a case that the schools hold the waiting list. So you're going to have to wait until the school office staff are back in, they are then told that a child has been removed from their list and they can offer the place - annoying, but it's the reason that 2 septembers ago a mum on our road got a call offering her a place the day before her DC was due to start at their second choice school, even though it turns out she was taking the place of a child who's family had relocated at the start of August, declining their place then. The council knew there was a place available, but until the school staff are back in, no offers will be made.

The fraudulent family might well have lost their place and are going elsewhere, but that doesn't mean you'll be called straight away.

(It's a painful process as you're hoping noone else moves in closer in the meantime, who'd jump ahead of you on the queue)

I am also a little surprised how far you have gone, but then we have a range of good schools in our area, so it's not a case of "the lucky and the damned" as it is in some areas. I'm not sure how far I'd have gone if I'd missed out so closely on a place at a good school when I knew I could prove someone else had taken a place fraudulently...

[MumTryingHerBest]

MaryWestmacott excellent post :-)

[waitingforgodot]

Is this a wind up?
If not, then OP you have made a serious deposit in the karma bank. Stalking and reporting someone to manipulate the situation to suit your own means.
You sound adorable

[Toohotforfishandchips]

Mary that is interesting as I thought in our area it was the LA until post Sept

[titchy]

As Mary says the OP will NEVER know the outcome of the investigation. She may be offered a place in the next few weeks, either because this kid has been told he is not eligible for a place, or because someone else has turned down their offer - either way the OP won't be told the reason for her offer. Alternatively she may not be offered a place. Again she would not be told the outcome, only that there is still no vacancy. OP I'd suggest you resign yourself to plan b for the time being as you have no guarantee plan a will come up, at least not in the immediate future.

[MumTryingHerBest]

waitingforgodot - Is this a wind up? If not, then OP you have made a serious deposit in the karma bank. Stalking and reporting someone to manipulate the situation to suit your own means. OK am I the only one is curious as how doing a basic internet search (checking the voters role) is stalking someone?

I have no idea how reporting someone for fraud will manipulate any situation as the LA will investigate and make their own conclusions. They most certainly won't act just on the OPs say so. In light of this perhaps you can clarify exactly how the OP has manipulated the situation?

As for suit your own means - Isn't that exactly what someone committing fraud is doing?

[MumTryingHerBest]

titchy again an excellent post :-)

[MaryWestmacott]

Toohotforfishandchips - sorry, should have said, I think it varies from area to area. Where we are (Kent) the schools took over the lists in June. (I know a lovely woman who got her DD into a school then and it was the school secretary who called her, not someone from the council).

The obivious downsides are that the schools aren't staffed in their offices over the bulk of the school holidays so it just makes it a lot slower, and places that might have been offered a few weeks ago will be left until start of September.

[MaryWestmacott]

oh and don't be surprised how unbelievably late people leave it to turn down places, I know someone who was surprised to be called on the second day of term by the state school both the husband and wife both thought the other had turned down when they decided to go private instead.

I know people who've known they were moving house to another part of hte country, but because they couldn't apply for a state place in the new area until they moved, they didn't turn down the old area place until move date - leaving it months after they knew they wouldn't be using it in September.

Hideous for those waiting.

[Toohotforfishandchips]

I am not sure in our area - north west. My friend was talking to the LA recently about her situation

[Toohotforfishandchips]

Mary I have seen that too - people going private at the last minute or hanging onto a school place in case a house move falls through etc - in some cases people know they are moving hundreds of miles away, but not when

[MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig]

I have sympathy for the op, it is incredibly frustrating worrying about places at schools. So many people appealed to get into our dc's school that there isn't room for all the children in dd2's class to go up to the next classroom in September. So some of them, dd2 included, are going to have some of their education sitting in a corridor. We're not very happy about it but as it's our catchment school what can we do?

[spanieleyes]

The OP has to forget about the fraudulent application, she has reported it, the council will investigate and that's it. She has no further role in those proceedings at all, they will not tell her what is happening, what stage the investigation is at or the outcome. What she needs to do now is concentrate on her place on the waiting list, phone up and ask but DO NOT mention the fraud case, they will not say anything about it. Just keep asking where you are on the list and think about the alternatives. There is nothing to say that you would get the place anyway, someone may well have moved to the top of the waiting list in the meantime, this is what you need to be focussing on, not electoral registers.