Time off school for sports training - allowed or not?

[whojamaflip]

Hi trying to gauge if school is being unreasonable or not tbh.

Dd is working at a high level in her chosen sport and is aiming for nationals next year. She has been invited to a training camp by the county which is over 4 days meaning she would miss a Friday and Monday in school.

I spoke to the school office to ask for a holiday authorisation form to ask for the time off and was told that more than likely permission would be denied!

Surely sports training at this level should count as enrichment? Her attendance is good and she is making her targets in class.

Also if they do say no and I take her anyway what is likely to happen?

It's too good an opportunity for her to miss btw

Retropear.

I do know of a local club that takes kids out of school early one day a week to take advantage of the empty facility. These are respectable level, so regional, lower level national. Not elite or on the way to being elite.

Apparently the schools are fine with it. As a parent I'm not so sure I would be. It could be the schools don't differentiate between a talented child committed to her sport, and those who are nationally ranked or on a national squad. It still comes under the additional needs bracket.

Really red guitar exam no not G&T but a child with wealthier parents able to pay for music lessons,ditto the sporty kids.

Yes the G&T kids get days off(mine have for both that and exams actually) just a bit that in this current environment re time off enrichment days off for the wealthier and more able seem to be deemed ok but those in the middle and the poorer kids who could equally benefit from enrichment at their own level aren't allowed to have it.

Where we are its fine if you only do one thing, such as one instrument, one exam etc.
If you do more than this and need more time off, no way will any school allow it.
Some are better than others, but over the last year I've witnessed huge changes. It saddens me so much, I too started a thread not long ago.
Yes, there are codes for educated off site, but HT's don't have to authorise them if they do want to.

IME DCs miss plenty of classes competing on behalf on the school, so it would be churlish not to support this training camp.

But a child of more average ability will probably have their needs meet by the school already within the existing structure of PE lessons, after school or lunchtime clubs, regional schools compositions etc. Of course a child who is working at an elite level will need provision from outside the school unless they are at a specialist elite sports school which I don't think exist in the UK.

Where we are its nothing to do with elite or G&T its activities that are run by the LEA music service.
How ironic, its their own service, but some children are being refused.
It boils down to which school you go to and if the HT likes music, sport, drama etc. They are all state schools, some church, although there appears to be no distinction between the two in terms of acceptance.
There are even children with excellent attendance being refused.

Maybe it will come to the point where parents have to use this as a criteria when choosing a school, who knows.
If you do have an understanding HT you are very lucky and I personally can only see it becoming worse.
An alternative for continuing to pursue a talent has to be H.ed as its the only way you can guarantee you will be able to attend.
I know its not a choice available to all, but we are so glad we have done this.

The children I know of who have had time off for sporting activities would be classed as G&T in their sport. They are not necessarily the wealthiest parents in school either. Just that their child has a sporting ability which the school cannot extend/stretch - so the external agencies are needed, and so time off if permitted.

It's widely known that getting a child to that level is down to cash hence more top athletes coming from private schools.

Lots of average kids are the only kids doing sports.

Loads of kids would love to do all manner of sports but never will because their families can't afford the kit,time or money to take them let alone money for lessons.Many would be very good at it but we'll never know.

Re G&T only the fsm kids get courses paid for so many won't go on them that should because of money.They enrich and aren't there to "meet needs" as surely all G&T kids would need to have them provided for free by county if that was the case.

I have to admit that I object to the LEA music service having events during term time. In my area some of the events are open to any child's whose parents are prepared to pay. There are 13 weeks of school holiday and frankly I fail to see why LEA music or sports events can't be scheduled during term time. My son was gutted that I would not let him do a recorder day.

I feel that LEA music services have to wake up a bit and smell the coffee. Very few children are going to make it as professional musicians. Music is a lovely life enchancing hobby, but even top musicians need school lessons. I suppose the same could be said for sport.

I feel that both children's county sport and county music should be in the holidays as far as possible. International events are different though. Perhaps there is more of a case for allowing sport events during term time than music events as top atheletes need to train all year around.

lol I meant scheduled out of term time!!!

Totally agree.

Except training could easily be done after school.

Retro your experience is vastly different to mine. "Getting a child to that level is down to cash" - the only child I know who represents his country at a sport is from a single parent family with minimal income.

"Yes the G&T kids get days off" - never heard of any enrichment courses/days in this county. Have friends with G&T DCs and DS has been so labelled so could reasonably expect to at least know of them if provided.

I'm surprised I thought most counties offered them.

I think your experience isn't the norm.Sport coaching,lessons and equipment costs ££££££££. Most of dd's class would love to do horse riding but none do at minimum of £10 for half an hour and equipment on top.

Musicians don't need to practice all year round?
How many peri's do you expect to run courses over the holidays?
how much extra would this cost for parents?
How many would attend, as they'd be on holiday?
Where would the audience come from, they too would be on holiday?
In reality the service organise these events during the last week of term and for many include a week residential abroad.
The kids love it and it is their passion. They turn up every week to rehearsals and their parents aren't rich. Many are entitled to fsm and in general they are wc families.
We have a fantastic LA music service who work tirelessly to support the children. They are on the whole amazing and surviving despite huge cuts.

We have a termly programme.

No Retro - I'm like iseenodust - your experience is different from mine too.
I live in a big City, and there are all sorts of opportunities for dc to take part in sports that don't involve parents spending a lot of money. Yes, I imagine horse-riding does, but I only know people who do things like swimming, football, athletics, cricket, etc., where if a dc has that big a talent, they will have to be supported in terms of time spent at training, etc., but it's not going to cost a lot of money. You seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about this.

I don't know of all these experience days either - either through my own dc or as a teacher. I guess that must be specific to your area.

Dd is in year 7 at a grammar school, and has been allowed 3 days off this term for playing for her county. The school have been great, we emailed them about it. DH also had to speak to the attendance officer

Taking part in sport is different to pursuing it to a top level- it costs money,to deny that is ridiculous.Families don't have mountains of spare cosh lying around these days.50% of top athletes are privately educated ie they come from wealthy families.

And sorry many counties let the G&T kids have days off for enrichment,have seen enough on here to know our county is by no means the only one.

Sorry I don't think the double standards are fair.Either all kids including the less wealthy and able should be allowed days off for enrichment or none.

Only 7% of children are privately educated.

Would like to add £5 a week for a sports club is out of the league of many families.It may not seem much to some but it is for others,ditto music lessons.If kids don't do the club/lessons they don't get to any level worthy of being picked for anything.

Retro, you seem to have an axe to grind, and I'm not sure what it is.

Yes, some sports are very expensive, but many (football, athletics, rowing for eg) are not. I have a dc that has represented GB in one of these sports, and we have a very average income. The main costs are club fees (£20-odd a month), race fees (£8 or so maybe ten times a year), kit (sports direct is your friend, you don't have to spend a fortune) and transport to events (parents often share lifts or use public transport).

Once they are at international level costs go up, but they get subsidised by clubs and organisations, and they can apply for funding from sports aid and the local authority.

So it is absolutely not the case that kids from non- wealthy homes cannot compete at a high level in sport. Yes, obviously riding, polo etc are different, but they're not representative. To tar all sports with that brush risks putting people off even trying, and makes the exclusivity self-perpetuating.

And the thing that makes time off school for high level sport a different proposition to just fancying a bit of enrichment is the amount of time these kids are putting in. A top-level teenage swimmer or rower will be doing in the region of 20-24 hours training a week, spread across 10-12 sessions. That is every day after school, probably three early morning sessions requiring a 5.30am start, and half the weekend as well. On top of working for GCSEs or Alevels.

So expecting the school system to cut them a bit of slack occasionally in recognition of the amount they're putting is really not unreasonable. It's not at all the same as wanting time off for an all-round enriching experience - though in fact schools will generally give time off for those kinds of activities as well. Another of my dc has occasionally had time off for very non- professional standard choir events, and I'm grateful to the school for authorising that because it is enriching. But it's not comparable with time off for training camps or competitions for a child who is racing for GB or entering Young Musician of the Year or whatever. At that level co-operation from the school is essential to making the whole thing work at all.

This is a primary board Retro - I doubt there are swathes of primary age kids having days off for county-provided g&t enrichment!

And I suspect the slight dominance of the privately educated at elite level is because private schools DO more sport that their state counterparts. Though again the only two kids I know with national potential are both from single parent socially housed families (football and swimming - both pretty cheap even at elite level).

DD's primary have her time off for dancing and it was actually noted in their Ofsted report about the support they had given her. Her secondary also allows her time off. We always have a letter from the dance school to give them.

ReallyTired I shouldn't worry. With the cuts to LA music services there won't be any music summer schools for much longer, term time or otherwise.