Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

3+ 4+ 5+ 7+ support thread 2014

659 replies

mumteacher · 08/11/2013 18:47

I started the below thread last year and have had so many people find it useful I thought it might be worth doing it again.

I have had a number of messages asking if I have any spaces in my classes. I'm really sorry but I have been at full capacity for some time now.

However, I do appreciate that this is a very stressful time of year for parents who have children sitting these private school assessments in January 2013. So, I'm hoping that by setting up this support group thread I can help by answering some questions you have about these assessments.

Hopefully this thread will also contain some useful insight from the experiences of parents who have already been through the process.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Flutterby11 · 20/02/2014 11:49

I agree about being too young for 'formal' tuition which is why we didn’t go down that route..

our dd has consistently been around the top of her class at nursery for the past few years and her EYFS based reports place her at developmental stages above her age group in all categories.. we hav a highly academic family with doctors/dentists/Oxbridge graduates and City workers all of whom regularly remark on how advanced our dd is compared to when they were little (and also comp to other nieces/nephews/grandkids in the family), she has plenty of personality and is curious, inventive and has great academic skills so far as a 3 year old can have, great at puzzles, has picked up phonics well and very sociable with other children.

As mentioned above we deliberately chose not to put her through tutoring as we saw this as too much too soon and were relying on her natural skills and talents and doing plenty of activities at home. In the end though, we didn’t even get called back for the 2nd round at Habs which we can live with but it is a disappointment and I don’t know whether we were completely naïve in not being more pushy with the prepping.

Our nursery has a history of sending a few girls to St Hilda’s/St Margaret’s, both in Bushey but everyone else seems to go to various state schools. It did occur to us that there might be a feeder nursery system but I suppose we didn’t investigate it enough when choosing nurseries.

We know that Habs know what they are looking for and presumably they didn’t see what they wanted in our dd. I suppose at this stage we would like to judge whether we should bother with 5+ unless we tutor and also to know in the future for other dc’s.

AmIIndecisive · 20/02/2014 12:10

Flutterby, I know a few girls who I think really should have secured places at NLCS and Habs this year, can't understand why they didn't as they showed so many qualities that you would think should have got them in. I think some of it is a lottery to get past the first stage, once at stage 2 they can really see the kids one on one. But who can be sure what they are looking for except the Assessors themselves.

Maybe the relationship with your nursery wasn't that great but I genuinely don't know how much that helps or hinders.

Your dd sounds extremely capable, I would re sit Habs at 5, they take a whole other class - regarding tutoring, that is your call, personally I don't agree with it and it doesn't sound like your child needs it.

Whatever you decide, best of luck to you!

slowcomputer · 20/02/2014 12:47

Feeder nurseries spend a lot of time practicing what comes up in the assessments, so of course the kids from there will be better at those tasks. The assessments are time pressured and places like NLCS have specific scoring systems based on these tasks, so who is going to do better - a child who has practiced them every day for the last three months or a child who hasn't?

slowcomputer · 20/02/2014 12:53

Oops

Practising not practicing

Blush
slowcomputer · 20/02/2014 12:57

Of course not everyone from a feeder nursery gets in and some will get in unprepared. But it's a numbers game. Standard ratio of applicants to places at 4+ is 10:1, most feeder nurseries and tutors have a greater than 50% success rate for any given school,often much higher than that.

AmIIndecisive · 20/02/2014 13:11

Feeder nurseries get 50pc of applicants in? And tutors get 50pc of applicants in as well? Out if interest, how do you know this? Does this data come from the tutors themselves?

AmIIndecisive · 20/02/2014 13:12

Out of interest not if!

slowcomputer · 20/02/2014 14:02

For example, Manor house preschool has just published their results and they have 10 places and 3 wait lists at Channing. Their class is 24 of whom about 50% are boys, so most of their girls have got in, full results here and they have previous years on their website too.

BTW I don't work for them or own the place before anyone asks, I'm a local parent and this is just an example

www.clownsnursery.co.uk/news/school-results-january-2014

slowcomputer · 20/02/2014 14:02

www.clownsnursery.co.uk/news/school-results-january-2014

Sorry ticked the wrong box!

AmIIndecisive · 20/02/2014 14:11

So 4 NLCS offers and 3 Habs (which could be the same girls).

Just looked at link, Clowns have an outstanding Ofsted, this could just mean that because they carry out the EYFS and carry it out well, their children have a good success rate, I don't think that falls into the same category as externally tutoring a 3 year old.

jin220 · 20/02/2014 15:11

slowcomputer: are you aware of other nurseries besides Manor House Preschool with similar results? In Harrow/Stanmore/Pinner area?

AmIIndecisive: Manor House state on their Limetree Room page "We prepare children that are sitting for the independent schools and are very proud of our success." That is more or less tutoring.

AmIIndecisive · 20/02/2014 15:21

Maybe so and they are called a preschool (though I can't really understand the difference between a pre school and a nursery - perhaps this is it).

Preparing through what they do at nursery though, and taking a child to a tutor is still not the same thing. Surely 3 years olds should be playing in the afternoons or at the weekends, not taken to tutoring sessions, and it also raises the question of if they get in, will they need to be tutored to keep up? Should they be there in the first place? And what on earth can a tutor teach a 3 year old that they wouldn't want to learn through osmosis and the world around them?

I think a lot of the pro tutors for 3 year old arguments, come from tutors themselves who are praying on the fear of parents that want the best for their children and are concerned about the competitiveness of the system, if tutors say so many of their children are successful, who knows how true that data is, or if most of those children would have got in without tutoring.

mumteacher · 22/02/2014 01:04

Am2indecisive out of curiosity (if you don't mind sharing) which nursery did your dd go to?

OP posts:
AmIIndecisive · 22/02/2014 01:58

I would prefer not out myself on mumsnet if that's ok - I hope you understand.

Its a nursery though not a pre school and I know they have had occasional children go to selectives schools but not big numbers, certainly nowhere near the place that the previous poster put a link to.

slowcomputer · 22/02/2014 10:37

I don’t know whether we were completely naïve in not being more pushy with the prepping.

Yes, you were
So was I
So are many many people each year so don't feel bad about it

The numbers are now so ridiculous that without proper preparation the odds are stacked against you- doesn't mean that no unprepared girls get in, but it is much much harder.

I believe that for Habs 5+ they need to be reading at ORT level 2-3 and comfortably adding/taking away up to 10, which many schools won't have covered by Christmas of reception year.

mumteacher · 22/02/2014 11:49

AmIIindec of course ;)
I've mentioned this before but the term 'tutoring' shouldnt always mean paying someone to prepare a child for these assessments. Why can't it mean it's someone a parent a nanny assisting ? Parents who work 10 hrs a day may not have the luxury to help their Chn in the same way as other parents who can spend afternoons doing puzzles with their Chn. Should these Chn then be labelled as being tutored?

AmIIindec if your nursery is not fast paced and covers the ground required to "pass" these assessments then who did these thing with your daughter? Someone would've had to teach her to draw well and cut accurately.
Very rarely do girls need much assistances after they've secured a place, and they need assists to secure a place because it's a numbers game.

Now let's assume you helped prep her for the assessments. When she's in her new school and she struggles with maths for example aren't you going to help her? How is that different from again the parent who works 6 days a week employing a person for half a term to make sure that their daughter understands fractions?

It haven't yet understood what the objection is against- that a person is paid to do the things that a stay at home or parent that works part time can do?!

Someone up thread asked me what they need to do with there dd for 5+ I mention three/4 things. That parent is hopefully going to go and do it and figures crossed their dd will secured a place. How is this different from say me teaching their child these things and the child securing a place?

Slowcomputer a lot of the state schools won't cover much of what's required for the 5+ but some of the private schools may.

OP posts:
mumteacher · 22/02/2014 11:52

Their

OP posts:
AmIIndecisive · 22/02/2014 19:13

Hi mumteacher, to clarify when I said tutored I was talking about specifically paying someone externally to train 3 year olds specifically for assessments.

If you call tutoring, normal everyday things you do with a child who is inquisitive or willing to learn, reading stories, looking at books, an inquisitive child will ask what letter that is, or what number that is or how many sweets do I have etc, or what is that animal called, or please can I have a pencil I want to do drawing.

Maybe we should agree to disagree but I think tutoring a 3 year old is absolute madness, a much older child who was struggling with fractions is a different scenario (in the first instance I would expect the school teachers to help, then if that failed maybe I would try and help if I could work it out!) but if, and let's use your example, a 3 year old is struggling with these tasks, is this going to be the right school for them anyway at that age??

They have safety scissors and glue and things to cut with at her nursery, we have none at home, excuse my naïveté but don't most nurseries have that? Re drawing, yes my dd draws ok, she is interested in it, by the same token, my older son never was and I never made him sit down to draw, nor did the nursery.

To answer your last point, my concern is that tutors, in RL and on mumsnet, are perpetuating the myth that you have to tutor (pay externally) to pass the 4+ and it's in all your interests to do that. You select your candidates, who knows how many would have got in regardless, the fact that those parents who contact you in the first place are obviously committed enough to their children's education to think of spending money on private education and doing whatever it takes to get in so they are halfway there. The whole tutoring at 3 feels like a bit of scaremongering to be honest.

Platinumstar · 24/02/2014 13:55

Has anyone heard from the boys 5+ assessment yet ?

Platinumstar · 24/02/2014 14:29

I meant Habs boys 5+ assessment

mumteacher · 24/02/2014 23:12

Letters in post today so 5+ boys results should be out Tom depending on your postal service x

OP posts:
mumteacher · 27/02/2014 08:04

Platinum star hope the 5+ worked out x

OP posts:
knijabat · 28/02/2014 13:29

Hi mum teacher, thanks for all your great advice, I have pm'd you too but do you have specific advice for the hall school assessments at 5 plus?

Platinumstar · 28/02/2014 22:31

Hi Mum teacher thanks for your reply.. Thankfully we have been called back for round 2.. Keeping fingers crossed. I would be very grateful if you could share some tips for round 2..if possible..

missravda · 05/03/2014 18:33

Hello everyone, do we have any more happy outcomes from the girls on the waiting lists? X

Swipe left for the next trending thread