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Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Primary education

Reading levels, dd needs gagging!

69 replies

BabiesAreLikeBuses · 01/07/2013 19:58

I try so hard not to discuss any of this stuff in the playground and have fobbed other parents off who have asked me...
Today dd was moved up a level. Whoever did so made it clear that she was doing well and that the books with her special sticker on were high for her age and that she had to be taken to the year above to get them...l
After school at the park went up to the mum of one of her classmates and asked what level her daughter was on said mother clearly amused and irritated... Had to have a chat about modesty...

OP posts:

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kelda · 02/07/2013 07:16

Startail - both my girls were fairly slow with talking, slow with numbers, slow with reading. At age 2,3,4,5 they were overtaken by everyone. They both had (in dd2's case still has) significant hearing problems to overcome.

Now they are 9 and 7, they are doing very well, and dd1 is nearing the top of her class. They are both bi-lingual.

Now that is a boast

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kelda · 02/07/2013 07:17

BabiesAreLikeBuses so well done to your dd!

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Swallowing · 02/07/2013 07:26

But why is she showing off about it? I don't get it, does the school place a huge importance on it? Do you? My children were too busy having fun to be bothered. It isn't a sign of intelligence or an indicator of success, it is what it is.

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Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 02/07/2013 07:35

With the best will in the world sometimes they are going to forget and get all excited about it. I'd be happy to see any kid so pleased with themselves and excited. Doesn't matter what level it was its an achievement that means nothing to us (as we know they all get there) but to them
They have worked hard at and deserve that moment of glory. I don't fit there and think "well dd is on....." I think good for them!!! There's a difference between bragging and just being excited

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cory · 02/07/2013 07:56

It depends on how they do it, even at the age of 5.

Running up to your mum and jumping for joy because you got a teacher's star for your reading is fine and hurts noone.

Telling your little friend that "I can read level 5 and you're only on level 2, because you're not so clever" can, if you are unlucky, undermine little friend's confidence for good.

Telling your friend's mum how well you are doing in your friend's hearing can also be a bit undermining.

Ds had a friend like this (I can do x and you can't; I am on level y and you're only on level z because you're not very clever). It was a constant drip, drip, drip.

I don't actually believe this 5 yo boy was a deliberate bully; he was just innocently pleased that he was cleverer than his friend and nobody had told him the rules for these social engagements.

After a few months at school we noticed that ds was beginning to say things like "I am not very clever", "I can't read like the others". After a few more months the teacher was mentioning that ds didn't seem to engage very well in class. And the less confident he got, the less he tried and the more he dropped behind.

It has taken him until Yr 8 to regain his confidence and realise that maybe he can learn things too.

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Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 02/07/2013 08:06

I think we would all say something to our kids of if resulted in the "I'm better than u" style stuff. That is absolutely not acceptable. But if they come running out smiling saying "mummy look" or "I've got a new book from the --box" or miss x said --" that's just them
Being excited and they should be allowed to be. Most people with half a brain would realise that yeah maybe little Megan is good at reading but Alfie over there is good at maths or my Leo is really good at drawing etc. no e of its s competition and in a couple of years time when they hate school or the works getting too hard , you will probably wish you had let them enjoy the excitement and be pleased that their achievement had been noticed.

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cory · 02/07/2013 08:17

Yes, but if you ask your friend's mum in your friend's hearing what level s/he is on, it may be a bit upsetting for the friend.

Ds' friend was always going "I got x result, what result did you get?"

And there literally wasn't anything during the school day that ds could do better than his friend: his friend was bigger and stronger, better at sports, better at writing, better at reading, better at maths, better at answering teacher's questions...

It is a myth that if you are bad at academic subjects, you have to be good at sports or music.

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Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 02/07/2013 08:27

But isn't equally crushing to a child to be constantly saying "sssh don't tell anyone" "remember Alice we don't talk about school til we get home"

"I've told you to not mention that", "be quiet, tell me in the car"

They would have been bursting to tell you all day and the first thing we do is remind them to keep quiet? That has an impact too.

Children are often aware in class about what groups they are in, children are given certificates in assembly etc.

Teaching them not to brag or be cruel or mention other children is one thing and absolutely they should not be doing that. But they should be allowed to be excited !

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Swallowing · 02/07/2013 08:41

Excited about what? It is such an arbitrary indicator of 'success'. I am not in the UK though, I remember people getting equally as excited about potty-training there too...

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Swallowing · 02/07/2013 08:42

I mean, yes children should be excited about their successes, but why is she so bothered about reading levels? They mean shit. Someone has primed her for this. OP?

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xylem8 · 02/07/2013 08:46

It was rude of your DD to go up and brag to the other mum.But really! I am guessing you are all on your first children to think reading bands are such a big deal! By this time next year the best reader will probably be someone not even reading yet.

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Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 02/07/2013 08:59

That's a good question swallowing I mean my dd would occasionally come out and tell me she was getting a certificate on Friday or be particularly excited about a book she had. But , she knew they had stickers on, would know if the colour was different on a book she got given but she wouldn't mention the sticker. She has no idea what the colours mean. It was such a rare occurrence she was even remotely interested in a book (she hated biff and chip) that I wouldn't stop her telling me in the playground that she had a book about a dog. She didn't ever mention stickers though as they mean nothing to her.

If a kid is excited about an actual level then that's cos they have been told (that's not their fault) but I assumed she ops kid just was excited cos it was from a different box somewhere else. She was excited because it was new and maybe cos the teacher told her what it meant. Still, she wouldn't have known that the parents know all the colours or even care what colour someone was on. It didn't sound like bragging just excitement about the day and something new.

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fuzzpig · 02/07/2013 11:09

Haven't had to deal with bragging, whether intentional or not, as DD is quite shy. She will not usually say anything about school until we get home.

DS (starting yrR in sept) I have no idea as he can't really speak properly yet.

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freetrait · 02/07/2013 11:24

Let the kids be kids, adults be adults. They brag over all sorts of stuff, so why shouldn't reading be part of that if they want to .

I did this, I did that, I've got this, I've got that, I do this, I do that..... of course we must offer our wisely counsel re hurting other children's feeling if it is done in a loud and brash way and we are party to it, I would do this for any bragging whatever it was if I was party to it, and if I wasn't then I wouldn't worry .

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Periwinkle007 · 02/07/2013 11:44

why is it so wrong though if they do know about levels? I don't understand that.
My daughter knows that as your reading gets better you move up the levels/colours and when you go up you get a new lot of stories to choose from. Why is it wrong for her to know that you move up the levels?

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sittinginthesun · 02/07/2013 12:58

Ah, you all want to meet my youngest son. He and his best friend both moved from the reading scheme onto library books this week. His best friend ran out of class to tell his mum, and we all gave him a hug and told him how proud we were etc.

DS2 wandered out, complaining he had a cut on his hand (invisible!), and that he was hot, and that he'd been to the toilet THREE TIMES that afternoon.

Best friend says "Yes, but you also moved onto library books!".

DS2 shrugs, and says he's still amazed that he went to the toilet three times in one afternoon...

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BabiesAreLikeBuses · 02/07/2013 13:43

swallowing
to be honest that was my only concern- the person she had read with in school had clearly made a big deal of the bands (not her teacher). For her i was pleased especially as she missed out on her gymnastics grading on sat (which ds sailed through).

And of course i told her well done and gave her a hug in the playground. This was at the park next door. I felt it appropriate to talk to her about it because i don't want her bragging to random parents - wouldn't have been so weird if it was one of the mums i talk to!

simpson your school sounds even more competitive, i didn't think that was possible! A mum of ds's class approached me in the playground saying 'my dd says your ds is on a higher band than the rest of the class is it true?' i told her i had no idea but that they'd all be reading by ks2...

sittinginthesun my ds also regularly comes out with a record of how many wees being his big news and is still amazed that he can wipe his own backside!!

OP posts:

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Tiggles · 02/07/2013 15:11

Wow! I know I am oblivious to reading levels now, as I am on DS2 and 3, but I don't remember any of that sort of competitiveness with PFB.
DS2 has only once come out excited about changing book band, and that was when he got moved to lime level and he had been trying really hard to get there for a few weeks. I only realised the other day he is now a free reader, that change hadn't bothered him at all.

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freetrait · 02/07/2013 21:15

Yeah, somehow DS was pretty oblivious to the "levels". Fingers crossed DD will be too!

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simpson · 02/07/2013 22:31

Babies - it seems to be DD's year that is bad (3 ring leader mums) as DS in yr3 has always been fine and I have met some lovely friends through the school (his year group).

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headinhands · 03/07/2013 13:08

But isn't equally crushing to a child to be constantly saying "sssh don't tell anyone" "remember Alice we don't talk about school til we get home"

I don't think anyone is suggesting that's what should happen. Ideally a child will learn how and when to talk about things they are pleased about from those around. If my child came out and was gushing about something they were please with to me then of course that would be a non-issue, but if she was seeking out other children, or even their parents to ask about their reading level or whatever they were pleased about I would have a general chat later about when/how we talk about what we are good at.

I mean really, it's not rocket science is it? If your neighbour popped round just to point out how much nicer his car was than yours would that not suggest he lacked social skills?

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Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 03/07/2013 13:27

But they are learning. That's the point. Even as adults we slip up and make mistakes with things we have known or have done for years. There are going to be times they forget. If she had gone up in a "neh neh" style then yes that's something to be dealt with. But I get kids all the time coming up to me telling me that mummy bought them this or they went there or the teacher said ----. They aren't bragging they are just happy and I'm the mum of one of their friends and they feel they can talk to me that's all. And I give them a hug and say well done or just act interested. I don't see why achievements should be dirty little secrets all the time. What happened to just being happy for people. As much as kids have to try and learn these social skills, they also need to learn to cope with the fact that someone is going to be better than them at something or have something they don't.

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Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 03/07/2013 13:34

Today it was a book tomorrow it will be their aunts kitten or that they saw a snail. Or as someone posted above the number if times they went to the loo.

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headinhands · 03/07/2013 14:09

Feel like my message isn't getting through. There's a massive difference between telling a child not to be proud of their achievements and teaching a child not to brag. The op said her dc went up to a parent of another child to quiz her on her dc's book band. I would discourage that sort of bragging but not if she'd just told someone she was on a new level. That's the difference. It's the comparison element that isn't pleasant not the fact that she was pleased of course not. If you heard your dc saying something like 'my bike is better than yours' to another dc you wouldn't think you might need to have a little chat with them? No one has said they need to think their achievements are dirty little secrets. There is an obvious gulf between what I am saying and what you think I am saying.

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Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 03/07/2013 14:24

But she didn't know that none of the other kids didn't get the same. She probably asked in the hope that her and a friend might have the same book. That's different to intentionally making someone else feel bad. What I mean is , it's the intent that makes it an issue or not. To her it would have been a book. The level would mean nothing to her unless it was particularly hyped up by the teacher or ta. Whatever answer she got would also have meant nothing to her.

What I'm trying to say is that if she deliberately set out to upset someone then yes of course that's wrong.

If she was just excited and repeating what she was told and asking because she thought her friend might have the same or share the excitement with her then that's completely different.

I've seen kids comparing books, they are comparing colours and what the picture is on the front. They otherwise have no idea what the colours mean and only would if they had been told by the parents. It was no big deal unless the parents chose to make it one in worrying about what the other kids were trying to do when it was in fact innocent.